Episode #68 

Chemotherapy & CBT

Are you or someone you love facing chemotherapy treatment?

How can you use the power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help you cope with chemotherapy?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, as I share with you some of the fears and anxieties I faced before starting chemotherapy, and how I used my CBT tools to cope.

If you or a loved one are facing chemo treatment, this episode is a must-listen.

Click to listen now!

Reference Guides:

Full Episode Transcript

Hi. My name is Dr. Julia Osborn. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your life.

In this podcast, I'm going to focus on some questions you share with me and teach you practical ways to apply CBT principles so you can achieve a greater level of happiness and satisfaction in your life and relationships.

So first, as always, I'm going to share a really nice email I received from David in the UK and we responded back and forth to each other. So I'm just going to share with you those emails. So:

“Dear Dr Osborn, I want to let you know that I listen to your podcast every day and they're a huge support and place where I improve my self awareness and develop the skills I need to feel better.

I'm currently having CBT here in the UK and combined with your podcast, this helps me to feel better every day and be a better husband and father.

Thank you so much for helping more people than you can imagine.”

So I wrote back to him and then he shared a little more. He said:

“The mantra, ‘Do what's best for you, not how you feel,’ has really helped me to think and feel behave in a more positive way. That's helped to transform my daily experience. After a lifetime of general anxiety disorder and mental health issues, most of which I didn't even realize I was dealing with. I thought I was ‘normal!’

I'm better equipped to deal with life challenges than ever before. Best of all, now that I'm present and more balanced, I can be better support for the people in my life that need me, including my autistic daughter.”

Then he went on to say:

“I'm so sorry to hear about your health issues, which you shared on your most recent podcast. I want to send positive thoughts and strength to you and your family at this difficult time.

It was empowering to hear how CBT can be a significant tool even under such challenging circumstances. And the way you're still being there to support your listeners who like me see it as a tool which helps me deal with many other challenges in my own life and is completely inspirational.

My very best regards, David and family.”

So thank you, David, and thanks to all of you that have been listening and coming along with me on my journey with my cancer diagnosis and my treatment, and all of your emails and support have just been wonderful and really uplifting and just meant the world to me.

So I want to thank all you guys regarding that.

So in today's episode, I thought I'd walk you through my experience. I'm having going through chemotherapy. I know there are so many people out there that are going through chemotherapy and all of our stories and journeys are different and I just know we all know it's so common, right? Because once you're in this place in life, I just hear more stories about people. I start watching a movie.

I think that's going to be uplifting and just kind of light and then someone's got cancer. It's hard to get away from because it's so common. So I thought maybe if I shared some things that I've been going through and how my cognitive behavioral therapy tools have been getting me through this, that could be helpful whether you're going through it or someone, you know, maybe you can share this podcast or maybe one day, hopefully not. If you ever have to go through this. What I'm sharing today might be helpful as well.

And just being really specific with you guys. And like I said on my first podcast, sharing about what I went through, just trying to get help is I've been doing this podcast long enough and getting so many wonderful emails and encouragement from all of you that I feel really I feel like I'm in a safe place to share my hot thoughts and some of the difficult things I've been going through. But again, sharing how I'm coming out on the other side, thank goodness. And having my difficult moments of time.

But without my tools, I really would be lost, really would be lost.

So just to start off, I guess maybe talking about some of the fears I had before starting chemo. Is there's so much unknown? You just hear horrible things all the time. I was really fearful of losing my hair. To be honest with you, I think I mentioned that in one of my other podcasts and how sick I would be.

And I think I'm going to be throwing up every day. And what does all of that look like? And for me, I think I had a lot of fears also, because everything happened to me so fast that I didn't have enough time to really like, I guess, make certain decisions and think things through and just trying to come out of surgery and then knowing how to start chemo within three weeks. And I really struggled not being able to walk on my own. And there was just too much going on.

So you really got to work to get your head in a good space when things are just being thrown at you and you're feeling overwhelmed. And I know with my tools with CBT is that whenever I feel overwhelmed, that's because I'm looking at the big picture and I'm looking out into the future, which creates anxiety, right? Because I don't have any answers on how am I going to feel with the chemo? How am I going to react to it? What's it going to be like, what's going to be my experience.

So when I get overwhelmed, one of the CBT tools I use is about my fall record and getting mindful and being present and saying, okay. So say today's Monday that's all that I have control over is today and I'm going to break things down into little steps so that I won't feel so overwhelmed and I can start feeling like I can manage what's going on. Even though again, a lot of it is unknown. I had to go through it to know what it was going to be like.

But another thing that I did avoid, which was healthy was the internet, so I didn't go on the internet. I didn't read up about it. I know there's a lot of great support groups, especially on Facebook. Some French shared, which I know are wonderful. But for me personally, I didn't read them because I knew they would probably freak me out.

I did talk to some people that were fighting serious cancer in the past and they were freaking me out because they're like, go get a wig before you lose your hair and this is going to happen and that's going to happen. And I was just like, I'll keep all that in mind. But I have to just focus on my journey and what's going to happen and what's best for me. So be mindful when I felt overwhelmed to use my full record, figure out what am I thinking about?

What do I need to do today?

What do I have control of today to deal with the fears I had and the uncertainty before I even started chemo. So again, those were the fears. I didn't know how long I'd be out. I wanted to get back to work again. I didn't know what the side effects would be, so just getting started and slowing things down and asking questions that was helpful at the beginning.

I didn't have a ton of questions because I don't think I was really clear yet. I had surgery just three weeks before. It was a tough surgery. It's really serious. It was a big surgery.

I couldn't walk on my own. So it was just another thing. But I do remember when I went to chemo. My nurse Lisa is wonderful. She took my blood pressure and she was really surprised that it wasn't too high that most people is high.

But I think picking my chemo was helpful because I had two choices. And again, trustee Doctor Castanetta, my doctor made all the difference in the world. So my blood pressure was okay the first time I can at least tell you that much. So those are some of my fears. And again, some of my thoughts and my rational thoughts was, I can't handle this.

This is going to be so horrible. Am I going to be able to take care of myself? How's my family going to deal with this? I didn't want to put more stress on them. It's so hard seeing a loved one being sick and not doing well.

So I was also concerned for my husband, my kids that were my caretakers. While I'm going through all this, some of the thoughts was that they're not going to be able to handle it. I won't be able to handle it. It's going to be too much for us again. I'm not going to be able to function at all.

So those are a lot of my hot thoughts because they weren't 100% true, but they were feeding into my fears and feeding into some of that anxiety. And that's all true. Like I said a lot of times, two in movies, they don't show people going through chemo and just doing fine and still having their life. Most of the people in movies don't make it. They're in bed all the time.

They look horrible. They got these dark under their eyes because people go through that. But you don't really see where people are really coping with it, right? So you think, oh, that's real life. That's what it's like.

And if you haven't been through this and if you haven't been close to anyone that's gone through this, we don't have anything else to relate it to or hear. So everyone will tell you like, Well, we kind of have to wait and see what happens. But these are the side effects, and they send you them with this list of like, oh, my God, that's overwhelming all these possible side effects you could have. So a lot of thoughts I had going on, and I had to slow my brain down, identify my half thoughts and start challenging them so that I could just kind of I wanted to and I needed to be calm so that I would do well going through this and I really just had to surrender, I guess, is a good word and just say, okay, let's just take it one day at a time and we'll see what happens.

So some of the side effects I were afraid of, and one of the ones which I got a side effect, which I'll explain in a second.

But one of the ones I was afraid of getting is blisters on your hands and feet. And so they told me, I can't eat anything hot, I can't take a hot shower. I can't go in Jacuzzi, which I love. I can't get massages, which I love because that could bring your chemo to the surface. And then you could get these blisters right.

So I'm like, oh, my goodness. So I had to be mindful of all of that. And I didn't want to get that. So that was, I guess, the side effect I was afraid of. I was also afraid that I was going to be throwing up a lot, and that concern me because we all know what you feel like when you're throwing up, right.

And I'm thinking I've already lost, like, £15. That was another thing I was afraid of. I didn't want to lose more weight, and I wanted to be able to heal from my surgery at the same time and be able to still do my physical therapy for my leg. So how are these side effects going to affect me? So those are the big ones I would say that I was really concerned about.

So one of the side effects that I've gotten after my second chemo. So with my chemo, I go once a month, but it stays in your system all month. It's not like after a couple of weeks, it's gone. So I do bounce back and I'm able to recover those few weeks in between, which is a blessing. I'm able to work and do things, which is really great.

But one of the side effects I got, it looks like a flea bite. And I have a dog that doesn't have fleas. Paisley is all good. But at first my husband said, maybe it's like a little Spider bite you might get at night time. But then I started getting more and more.

And when I say itch, I can't even tell you. And I started using some cortisone cream didn't help at all. So then I have some really good CBD cream that kind of helped. And then I called my chemo nurse, and she said, Get some Benadryl. I didn't know Benadryl is different than the cortisone.

So that's been helping. But it's not going away because it's continuous in your body. So managing it, it will wake me up and you don't want to itch it because then it's going to bleed. And that's been something I'm really struggling with. So I've been doing a lot of deep breathing exercises just to calm myself down.

I carry my Benadryl cream with me wherever I go. So that's been really hard because I'm like, okay, I'm not going to boosters. That's great. And all of a sudden, this shows up, and nobody really told me, like, maybe some skin things, I guess. But the itching is the part that's really like, you could lose your mind.

Think about if you've had, like, a mosquito bite and you just don't want to itch and it's just there. So that's, like, almost 24/7. So that's really tough. And as I mentioned earlier, the other side effect is although I was going to lose my hair, that my hair was going to thin from the chemo. So I was like, okay, and that didn't happen until about two weeks in.

And then your hair starts to thin out. So luckily, my friends, my family are like, I can't really tell. But I know, right? I know every day you're just pulling hair out. You're pulling hair.

So at first it was really hard for me. I can tell you one time. And the worst is when you wash your hair just to let you know. So after you wash your hair, you just seem to lose more. I got out of the shower.

I usually put this really thin kind of towel on my hair. This day I had a normal towel. I wrapped my head up and I'm like, okay, I'm doing good. I can shower alone now. I can stand by myself, which is great.

I kind of rubbed my hair with my towel. I got to take my brush. I had so much hair come out, you guys. I mean, I just like, I had to take a breath. Oh, my gosh.

Anxiety just came up, and I was like, okay, I just have to cope. I went downstairs. I didn't say anything. When I first got downstairs, my husband just looked at me and he's like, there's something wrong. I must have been white.

And I'm just, like, the amount of hair I just lost was, like, just overwhelming. It's just overwhelming. It's hard to describe. But since then, using my tools, right? My new thought is, thank God I still have my hair.

So before I was like, I'm losing my hair, what's going to happen? It keeps coming out. I know. My doctor said it was thin. I'm grateful I still have my hair.

So that's my new thought. And now I'm really coping well with that side effect. And it's not going to get better. And there are things I do. So I'm not messing with my hair too much and all those things just really being mindful of that.

And that doesn't seem to be stressed me out because I was crying. I was struggling. I kept saying, everybody, like, Why is this hair thing such a big deal? And I guess I kept telling myself, it shouldn't be a big deal because everybody wants to focus on, obviously that I'm well and I'm going to be fine. But then some people were really helpful and said, Your hair is a big deal.

It's a big deal. It's not just the silly thing. Like, don't worry. You've got other things to worry about. I met people.

I talked to people who said, yeah, I understand. And that was really helpful for me to be open. And to be honest, even though I thought it was just kind of being like I said, my ego and being vain, I guess, would be a better word. And I was being hard on myself the way I was thinking that they shouldn't bother me so much. But it did.

And the people around me that were able to empathize and say, it is a big deal. I understand, I think, is why I was able, I believe, to get to the place I am today, that I just had to accept that it was hard for me. But now that I changed my thinking about it, and I can say, I'm just grateful I have my hair and it's all going to be okay that I'm dealing with that a lot better, a lot better. So I think being positive and having some strength within and from the people around me has really helped regarding the side effects and just feeling bad and knowing going to chemo and you're like, I'm going to feel horrible for a week when I finally feel good, right?

Because I really do feel pretty good.

I'm walking better to let you know I'm not using my Walker anymore. My leg still has a way to go, but I was able to get back into the pool and the swimmer for my main exercise. I'm just walking, but that was a joy. That was a big day. So just seeing some progress and again, thinking better and having the progress was really helpful with changing my thoughts as well.

And knowing this is temporary, like I tell myself and it is going to get better and people just sharing and just saying, you're strong, you're brave. And I'm like I am. I didn't see myself that way, but having people share those positive statements how they see me was really helpful too for me to start seeing myself in that way because at times I was just like I am being negative and I'm just focused on all the bad stuff. And I need to think about this differently. But it's so hard and all of that was just stirring in my head all the time.

So sharing and being open and honest and authentic with my friends and family has really helped with them giving me feedback as well. So my first chemo was pretty tough. I really felt nauseous really felt sick. It was really bad for about three days, really hard to eat, a lot of crying and the medicine they give you doesn't really work. That great for the nausea.

It takes it away a little bit, but not great. And I'm feeling like I'm already lost so much weight, right? I'm feeling losing weight. It's already described, but I'm like I got to eat some food and Ugh just getting anything in me was so difficult and the people that you can never run, I tell you, my husband's just the Saint. I mean, I know I was short with him again.

I cried a lot. I complained a lot and he was just there, never complained, never just was there for me trying to figure out what I could eat and just getting through it. So that was helpful. My second chemo before I have a cousin who actually owns a dispensary and I thought I've got to get some dummies to help me get through this nausea. So before my second chemo, I went and that was fabulous and I wasn't sure what to even ask for.

So I wanted to go somewhere where I could trust somebody and he helped me get some gummies for the nausea. And that made a big difference. So my second chemo, I did throw up once. I never threw up the first time, but I did throw up once. My second chemo, which ended up being good.

I had a horrible headache and it seemed to help that for some reason. But with the gummies, it really took that nausea away and I lost like half a pound and I just felt more positive knowing I have something that really works. And I'm not just depending on this other pill. And even my doctor said if the gummies work, don't even worry about taking the other medicine and just go with that. So I felt really encouraged about that.

And before my second team, I also had a whole list of questions. So going back to advocating for ourselves, you guys like, it never stops, never stops. It wasn't just getting in the hospital and getting my surgery. It's like, okay, I got questions. I'm being treated with this chemo.

This is nasty stuff they're putting in my body. I want to know more about this. I want to know more about that. So my doctor, who's fabulous, just sat there and answered all my questions. It was really helpful.

And I did that before my second one. So that was again, just remember, you got to keep advocating. You got to keep advocating. My third chemo is coming up, and I've made actually an appointment to see them in person. I want some more reassurance going forward.

Why are we going to do or how many Chemos with my particular cancer? Ovarian cancer? They say you get three between three and six. I want to know what's the three. What does that mean?

Why isn't it just one set number? And I want it to be personalized for me. What's Julie's treatment. I don't want to just be textbook. This is what we do, because again, this chemo, I'm grateful for it.

Make sure I have no cancer in me. But it also does a lot to your body. So I'm not just going to go along and just be like, okay, whatever. I have more questions. So I called up and I'm having an appointment with them in person.

And I just want some more reassurance as I'm going forward, that I feel good about the decisions that I'm making about myself and that I'm getting more educated about the chemo and what to expect and what's going to be best going forward. So those are some steps that I'm taking to help me get through this as well. I just wanted to share that with you. Doing the CBD was super helpful. I was able to eat, but it was a tough chemo also, just because.

But also it lasted a little longer. It was about four and a half days. It didn't feel good. And I'm assuming my next one is going to last even longer. Which am I looking forward to?

And again with the chemo for me personally, because it's once a month again, those three weeks I really am. I'm really doing well. I'm working part time. I'm seeing friends for lunch or dinner. I'm able to walk my dog now, which is really exciting.

I really enjoy walking Paisley, and I'm able to do more as my legs getting better. And then you're like, oh, I'm going to get knocked down on my ass again, so I'm not looking forward to that, but I'm trying to think positive. I know I've gotten through two. I'll get through the third, I'm going to have more information. I got my CBD to get me through that.

I know it's temporary and anything temporary we can handle. So those are some of the thoughts that I'm using as I do this podcast this week. I have one more week before my chemo and I was kind of like I was in the pool today and I'm like, God, I feel good and I'm going to just get knocked down again in a week. So I'm really working on being aware of those thoughts, not letting them get in the way of today because I got a whole nother week.

I'm going to feel good and I'm going to plan to see a couple more friends before I have my chemo.

And I'm hoping that I can stay focused and present each day so I can appreciate every day and I'll deal with the chemo when I have to deal with it, which is next week. But I'm not going to let it get in the way of my day today. So obviously, as I said, using my CBT tools, my fall records identify my half thoughts and challenge them being present and focused on the day when I know that I'm feeling down and I'm getting outside of the day, I'm starting to worry about the future too much.

When I'm seeing a lot of hair come out every day. I just again focusing on one of my new thoughts that I'm going to replace with because I have to go through this or I'm choosing I should say that really right.

I'm choosing to go through this, and if I'm choosing to go through this, I'm not just going to freak out every day about it. I have to find a way to manage it. And the only reason I'm having my negative moods is because of how I'm thinking about my situation. So that's where I really need to shift that thinking and be okay with it. So it has helped me with the bigger picture again.

The bigger picture is that it's temporary. I'm going to get past this. I know that I'm growing as a person. I know that this is going to help me even be a better therapist and be there for my clients in a different way. Just going through this personally and just knowing sharing my story.

I've had some clients say they want to follow up on their health insurance and see if they have a good plan, right? They want to go see their doctor and ask about certain questions or get certain tests that they are maybe putting off. So whatever I can share if it's making you think a little different and thinking about you or a loved one or advocating for yourself, not taking no for an answer, then I feel like, okay, you know what this will be worth? It because I learned from others when they share, that can make a big difference, right?

And I want to share so I can make a difference.

And maybe somebody out there who is in my shoes will learn something and they will get the help that they need and things won't be in a worse situation. So again, I'm very fortunate and grateful that I have stage one. My cancer is gone. I'm doing the chemo, right, just for precautionary reasons. But it doesn't mean that it's not difficult and that it's not a struggle, but that I don't know where I would be if I didn't have my CBT tools.

I really don't. I think I probably would be depressed. I think my anxiety could have taken over. I think I'd really feel lost just trying to walk through, like walking through mud. It's kind of like your brain is not as clear.

How am I going to handle this? Am I going to be honest and tell people how scared I am or share my feelings that I think that I'm thinking or maybe petty, right? That's a thought. That's a hot thought, that my thoughts are petty. That's a hot thought right there.

So being open and honest other people can help walk me through that. It's not about just doing it on my own. But they'll say something like, yeah, that's true. I need to think differently about that. I need to be honest.

I need to be authentic with everybody in my life if I want to get the help and support that I really, really need. So just having the thoughts that that's what I need to do and trusting the people in my life can help me get through this. And again, this is just my story. A lot of people again go through chemo, like, every week. I mean, it's a lot you can tell.

I'm talking. I don't even know how managing that when I have it once a month. Even though I know my chemo is pretty strong, but we can do it. People do it every day. People have gone through so much treatment that it just blows my I've really been open to really thinking about what people go through.

Cancer sucks, and it walks you through a very difficult time in your life and how people have fought and gotten through again. The amount of chemo people have done just blows my mind. And it probably did save their life. But like one of my friends said, it's like taking a blowtorch to the insides view, right? I mean, it kills everything good and bad.

That's why I'm hoping down the road they get better treatments. But we all go through a lot, whether it's particularly cancer dealing with chemo, whatever your health issues have been, whatever your losses have been in your life, we all have to really work on loving ourselves because we're just incredible, courageous people for all the things that we experience and have gone through in our lives. And yeah, you can always find someone that had even a worse situation than yours. But I got to tell you, it doesn't take away from how you feel.

It doesn't take away your pain because somebody else has had it worse.

You can feel pain, empathy for them, no matter what. Anyone's journey, your journey is just as important. You're just as important as everyone else. So it's important. And I heard someone say he's been through cancer, that everyone's journey is their own and don't compare.

And that was really helpful to me. Like, this is my journey, and I'm just going to focus on this and I'm going to share and I hope I can be helped in some way. So I hope what I shared today, it's not about creating fear because you might be having to go through chemo or someone else's. I don't want you to be like, oh, my God. Oh, my God.

It's about knowing that it is going to be difficult and there are going to be some ugly parts, and it is physical and it's emotional and there's a lot of other unknown. And I didn't know how it was going to affect me, and I didn't know when I'd be able to get back to work. I didn't know how it's going to look. I know how it's going to feel. All the things I didn't know.

People would treat me differently if anything has been positive. When I had to use my Walker, it was an interesting experiment that being in a store or just being out or wherever people, because if you look at me, you wouldn't like, everyone looks sick. I look fine because no one's seen me the week of Chemo, obviously. So when I'm out, I'm looking okay, but when people see that you have a walker, “Oh, I'm sorry; here I'll give you space.”

People are really kind when they can see that you're struggling, which was really nice. And it was just interesting for me because I haven't been through anything like that before where I've had to use a Walker and just people treated me different, but in a positive way. So I'm coming through this. I feel like I'm having success with it because again, I have my tools and I practice them every day without even realizing it.

Just having some quiet time again, being able now that I can walk, just taking walks and not answering my phone and just being mindful of the trees and the flowers around me. All of that can create calmness for you. So it's important to find something that quiet. Your mind doesn't always have to be meditation. I know we all talk about that, which is a wonderful thing, but meditation can mean a lot of different things.

And you want to just find time to just be quiet. And when you are going through difficult times, like if you want to be around people. If you don't want to be around people, if you're like, I need to go take a nap or I don't want to talk about this right now. I don't want to be on the phone. I need to end the conversation, do what is best for you, and that's what everybody wants you to do.

Everybody wants you to do what's best for you, so don't feel like you need to. You don't need to be there for anybody right now. If you're going through something that's difficult, you need to just be there for yourself and the better you can be there for yourself. The better it will be for everybody else. And also remember, especially if you're like me and you're more of the caretaker and how much you enjoy helping others that that's how other people feel.

So if it's difficult for you to accept the help when you need it, just remember, you know what I like doing this when I'm well, so I'm going to give these friends family the opportunity, let them be there for you. It makes them feel good, even though it might be a long comfortable for you. You'll get past it. Trust me. But give people the space to be there for you, show you the love and the support, because that also will get you through all of this.

And again, remember anything temporary you can get past. So I hope I shared enough to really help you guys see and walk through with me again. I don't know. I'm going for my third one. I'm not sure how many more I'm going to have after that.

I will let you know I'm happy every time I can check off another chemo is done and just being grateful every day. This has helped me be more mindful for sure and grateful for the little things and thinking about how do I want to live my life going forward and the things I don't want to put off and the things that I'm finding that are bringing me joy that I didn't give myself time to do before. So what's the silver lining in all of this? I'd say, is again thinking about my life, how I'm living it, what I'm doing, who I'm spending time with that is helping me kind of Hone in what I want to do going forward now and when all of this is behind me.

So thanks for listening.

I hope this has been helpful. All of your prayers and support has just made the world of difference. I love hearing from you guys; again, all your emails and all the wonderful things you've shared just really warmed my heart and really humbled me during this time. So please keep reaching out.

You can email me at MyCBTPodcast@gmail.com.

You can find me on Instagram; Facebook, under Dr Julie Osborn.

My website is MyCognitiveBehavioral therapy.com.

If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the Subscribe button to make sure you never miss an episode. And thanks for joining me.

Stay safe.

Until we meet again.

Take care.