Episode #155

Serious Laughs & My CBT

Today, I want to share you with you a podcast I was interviewed on recently. 

The Serious Laughs podcast dives into all kinds of relationships with a side of humor! 

From family and friends, to our furry companions, to our bodies, our environment and so much more. 

Each episode features hilarious stories, relatable anecdotes, and personal insights that remind us we’re all in this together. 

I enjoyed my chat with the SeriousLaughs crew and I hope you enjoy the episode!

Click to listen now!

 
 

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, it's Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

Today, I want to share with you a podcast I was interviewed on recently, The Serious Laps podcast, dives into all kinds of relationships with a side of humor, from family and friends, to our furry companions, to our environment and so much more. Each episode features hilarious stories relatable antidotes and personal insights that remind us we're all in this together. So I hope you enjoy this episode. I certainly enjoy recording it for you. And if you want to check out the Serious Lefts podcast, you can find them on Apple podcast or Spotify or YouTube. And I'm also going to put this on my YouTube station under Dr. Julie Osborne, so you guys can see me on video being interviewed by them. As always, thanks for your support. Enjoy the episode and make decisions based on what's best you, not how you feel.

Molly

Hey, guys. Welcome to Serious Laughs. This is episode 25. Change your thoughts, change your life.

Sherry

How challenging our thoughts can transform our lives.

Molly

Hey, you guys. This is Molly. And I used to live in New York City.

Sherry

Hi, guys. This is Sherry. I'm a children's author for cognitive behavioral therapy and an actor. Look at that.

Molly

And we have Dr. Julie.

Dr Julie

Anything you want to share I grew up in Buffalo, New York.

Molly

Sherry, where did you grow up? You grew up in New York.

Sherry

Yeah. Long Island. But I went to Binghamton. We talked about that.

Dr Julie

Yes. And I'm familiar. I had a stepsister that went there for a little bit.

Sherry

Okay. Cold.

Dr Julie

It's all cold.

Sherry

Cold, but friendly people. Yes. Really kind people. Yes.

Dr Julie

It was a great place to grow up. Yeah, great place to grow up. But now I'm in California.

Molly

Yes, you are. And that's where I met you. And that's how we connect. We We were just talking about how it's been nine years since I've moved from California. I was a cycle coach at LA Fitness, and Dr. Julie and her husband would take my classes. There goes my pug. We would cycle together, and then we formed a little group of friends, and we'd hang out sometimes, and I've met your pugs.

Dr Julie

Yeah, then we found out we're pug mothers.

Molly

So many amazing things. Not to mention also, okay, so Dr. Julie is a CBT private practice therapist in Irvine, Like you said, 18 years in practice.

Dr Julie

Really?

Sherry

I did the math wrong because I read 2007. So I did that you started. Did you not start in 2007?

Dr Julie

Yeah. So I was at UCI, the University of California, Irvine, '97 to 2007. But I started my private practice part-time in 2000. Oh, gosh. But I've been a CBT therapist since '97 because I got trained at UCI.

Molly

Oh, dang.

Dr Julie

Yeah. So I've I've been full-time since 2007. So that's where you got that from.

Sherry

The math wasn't wrong. The timeline was.

Dr Julie

I just wanted to show I've been doing the CBT since '97.

Molly

Oh, man. And so you know what you're talking about. She's also the host of the podcast, My CBT podcast. She's a licensed clinical social worker, and you work with 15 years and up. People ages 15 and up.

Dr Julie

I do, yes. Mostly adults.

Molly

Mostly adults?

Dr Julie

Yeah, a couple of teenagers, but mostly adult years.

Molly

Okay. Yeah. Let's jump in because you have so much information that I think is so important to people. Sherry agrees. First of all, what is cognitive behavioral therapy, and what was your journey to study it and become a licensed clinical social worker of it?

Dr Julie

Okay. So cognitive behavioral therapy, we call it CBT for short. So The word cognitive just means your thought process and then behavioral is what you do. It's more than just a theory. Let me say it's the most researched and successful therapy out there, really creating change for people. So the cognitive part where you're thinking, so what we know now is that the way that you think creates your moods, which affects your behaviors and your physical reactions. And all those happen really quick, those four things. And then you also have your environment, which is the fifth part, which is super important, like your home environment, work environment, social. Right now, me and all of us together in an environment, so how that affects you. And so I teach people to learn how to know what they're thinking. So that can help change your mood. So most people live off of their moods. Moods and feelings is the same thing. So if I use them interchangeably. So most people feel something, and then they go to the behavior. They do mood behavior. Oh, I'm anxious. I'm going to avoid that situation. I'm going to stay in bed all day.

Dr Julie

I'm going to emotionally eat. I'm going to drink, so I don't have to feel anything. I'm going to rage, whatever behaviors. That behavior, It usually works in the moment. So then the person is like, Oh, that felt better. So next time they feel that, they go back to the behavior. And my theory is that's why most people in the world really don't get better, because they don't ever figure out why they're feeling that. And people think your feelings come first before your thoughts because that's what you're more in tune to. But you don't have a feeling for the heck of it. The way that you're thinking is what's causing your feelings, your moods. So when cognitive behavioral therapy is about having tools. So when I say, well, why are you anxious? Well, I think I'm going to come on this podcast and screw up. That's my thought, which makes me feel anxious. And my behavior could be, maybe I'd say, no, thank you. I'm not going to put myself out there. And Physical reactions can be what a lot of people feel with anxiety or fatigue, increased heart rate, upset stomach, the muscle tension, headaches.

Dr Julie

Those are all physical reactions. Your sleep gets messed up, appetite change. So again, all those four things happen quickly, the thoughts create your moods, affects your behaviors, your physical reactions. And then the environment you want to look at and say, is my environment causing me a problem? Am I in a hostile work environment? Am I in an emotionally abusive relationship? That type of thing. And then do I need to leave the environment? Do I need to learn to set boundaries? What do I have to do within that? It's important to look at because it's good that people look at themselves, but a lot of time people do blame them. Oh, it must be me. It must be me. Sometimes it isn't you. And it's the I'm insurance, and you need to change that. So that's what CBT is in an easy form. And then how I became a CBT therapist is, yeah, I was working at UCI at their Psychiatric Outpatient Center in Orange, California. And I was just, being honest, I was just a regular therapist, and I really didn't have a specialty. And they had a CBT group there. And Dr. Dennis Greenberger, who's my main person that trained me initially, They're like, You need to take this over.

Dr Julie

I'm like, What? I was able to sit with him and do the group, and then I trained the psychiatry residence because it's a teaching hospital. It was a blessing. I did not seek it out, and it just came to me. I tell therapists, you really need a specialty because being a general therapist, you're not going to be able to... My experience, I wasn't able to really help people because I really didn't have tools. So that's how it fell in my lap. And I'm forever grateful And so I started getting trained in '97 with Dr. Dennis Greenberger. And I did the group. And then I did the training. And then I've done more training as years have gone on. And then the last part, I became a So, yeah, I'm a licensed clinical social worker at my doctorate in psychology. I'm one of those lucky people I realized later in life that I always knew what I wanted to do even as a little kid. I was counseling. I was really interested. My mom would send me self-help books when I was really young and I got them. My first, I remember big one I read was Wayne Dier's Your Euronia Zones.

Dr Julie

Great book, but that was back... I was like a teenager, but I got it. That was interesting Getting curious with people. I love hearing people's stories. It's so intriguing to me. So luckily, that's how I ended up here. And I've always had my background in social work, which is really most dear to my heart is just community and connecting, understanding people on a bigger level. So that's how I got here.

Molly

Well, I have to say it's It's such a concept that I think a lot of people can understand. It just makes sense. And when you describe that, it really makes sense. It's not too obnoxious, it's not too broad. I don't know. It just makes I can tell you, too, as a therapist, which I love, is people are getting way more educated about therapy because I have a lot of people say, I'm coming to you for CBT.

Dr Julie

Because it's hard to pick a therapist. How do I find a therapist? How do I find a good therapist? People, okay, I'll go to whoever. Or people say, Oh, I went to someone. This happens a lot, too. Oh, yeah, I do CBT, but it's not a specialty. Then they go and they're like, They really didn't do anything. Now I'm going to come find someone that's really specialized in it. People don't want to be in therapy forever. That's the other thing I just want to say about CBT. It's a short term therapy. Some people love therapy and they want to stay longer. That's great. But if you really are working it and putting your time in, sometimes We're good to go, and people have their tools. I've just seen things, just miraculous changes that people that are really like, I am ready to get better. That's another reason that people want to come to that because they're just tired of feeling bad and they just want to get better and be able to move on.

Sherry

And it does really work because I have been through CBT therapy years and years ago, and it really altars your your cognition, and by extension, your behavior. And you get homework. You have to sit with discomfort is really what it comes down to. You learn that that's your thought. It's literally just a thought, and you can observe it and not engage. Just because you have a thought doesn't mean you are the thought.

Dr Julie

Yeah, just because you have a thought doesn't even mean it's true.

Sherry

Exactly.

Dr Julie

We all have 80 to 90,000 thoughts a day.

Molly

Jeez.

Dr Julie

Yeah. So we obviously don't know much of what we're thinking, and we're just reacting really to the world. Right? Yeah. And I was somebody like as a child, I mean, our parents didn't have these tools. So you come home and you're sad, oh, no, let's have a cookie and watch a cartoon. Feel happy, feel happy. And nobody ever figured out what actually made you sad. It's just people are also the discomfort you're having makes them in discomfort and they just want to fix it. So nobody says, no. Well, what do you think? What happened? What are you thinking about that's even making you feel sad? Because maybe your interpretation is even true.

Sherry

Sorry about that. Could we address that? Because you work with individuals instead of couples. Could you address that? We're families. Why is that?

Dr Julie

Why do I work with individuals?

Sherry

Yeah, as opposed to... Others? Yeah.

Dr Julie

I only laugh because I love couples. It's a real tool, a real skill. I work with individuals because, first of all, I believe that even if I have people will call and be like, Oh, my partner won't come. I'm like, Well, they don't have to come because it's all going to come down to what you're doing anyways in the relationship. You're going to come in and what are you thinking about the problem, say, in the relationship? Is that true? And changing your thoughts and how you behave, and then you're going to go home and be different, and that person is going to react to you differently. A lot of people are like, Oh, my partner won't come. I'm like, Go show up. If you want some therapy, go show up. Because even in couples therapy, what is each person going to do to make the relationship better? To be honest, I just enjoy working with individuals. Couples are tough. A lot of times, they just bring their arguments into your office. You have to be very skilled on how to work through that. Families a couple of times, here and there, sometimes with teenagers, I'm pretty good at being an advocate for, let me introduce that to your parent and help them get comfortable with whatever if it's appropriate and healthy for the teenager.

Dr Julie

Just hearing it from a professional, a lot of times parents will be more open. There's a little bit of that, but I mostly get individuals If I have couples, I just refer them out to my friends that are specialists with that. But you can get a lot of work done just with a person one-on-one. I think it's good for everybody to have that space to just be able to say whatever they want and not worry about it.

Sherry

I love that. They take the onus also also. It's my journey and how can I react.

Dr Julie

It makes them feel more in control like, Oh, I have a part in this. I can do something. I'm not just waiting for my partner to be a nicer person or meet my needs. What can I also do to meet my own needs.

Sherry

Really good. All right, we have another question for you.

Dr Julie

Okay. Okay.

Sherry

So it seems like we're seeing an ever increasing amount of statistics on anxiety and depression in our modern world, especially since COVID. 2020 seemed to be a big shift. So how does CBT work to address these mental challenges? And can you share any examples of CBT in action with tangible results?

Dr Julie

Yeah. So CBT is the number one recommended therapy for anxiety, depression. And you're right. Anxiety is the number one mental health issue in the United States, for sure. And with COVID. And I think in general, people are just more open to mental health. When I do histories with people and I'm like, Oh, do you have any family history of mental health? And a generation back from mine, people didn't really go to therapy. People weren't diagnosed. They just didn't address it. It's always been there, obviously. But now that people are more open and it's more of a supportive environment, people are coming and saying, Yeah, I'm dealing with all of this. I think why it's even risen more, there's just so much more to deal with. Just social media. I mean, things that I didn't have to deal with as a kid. I could just go off and come home. As they say, when the lights come on, nobody was calling me. I didn't have a beeper going off. I didn't know what all my friends thought about me off of social media. It's a whole another animal to digest. Even adults struggle with it. I've had adults in my office.

Dr Julie

I'm like, Get off. Stop looking at who's like and what. Everybody looks like their family's fabulous. It's just a picture. That really creased it because then people start comparing themselves to others. What they just say is the death of all of us if you compare yourself. I think that's why everything's gotten... That's another element to why things have gotten worse. And the world, it really has changed. There's way more divorce. When I was a kid, my parents were divorced, but I was the only one on the block. People just people just stay together more. And even if they weren't happy, but families were more intact. Now people are getting married, divorced, the families, the blending. Oh, my God, I don't want to take your whole pocket. There's just so many reasons why it's gone.

Sherry

Well, it's almost like we have psychological ADD. That joke like, squirrel. I feel like we're constantly bombarded with information, misinformation from a micro to a macro. And so no one's really listening. And I'm guilty of it myself. Sometimes I'll be talking and I get My son will call me from college and I'm like, Aha. Oh, wait, he's saying something. So it makes sense.

Dr Julie

And it's hard to check out. Let me tell you. I was just on a family trip, and I'm like, I'm checking out. I was in another country. But I checked my emails and it was hard. I didn't read, but just some pictures of people I was trying to check out from would just show up. I mean, it's hard to check out unless you are completely off your your zone, even when you try. So you have to really be mindful and manage that. If you can't be off your phone, get off your phone. But even when you try your best, things get thrown at you. So we have to be mindful. This is what I'm focused on right now. I'm not going to go there. There's so many examples of CBT in action, but like I said, even with being on with you guys today, how is it going to I want to be able to really be articulate. I want to have people learn, get interested, take something away from this. Those are all my thoughts. If we have 80 or 90,000 a day, you're going to have a couple of hundred in a few minutes.

Dr Julie

I might be like, Oh, I'm a little anxious about that. So then I have to be like, Okay, what are these thoughts? I call them ha thoughts. Half? Yeah. Let me share. Dr. Greenberger and Dr. Podesky wrote a book called Mind Over Mood, and that's my main tool. And that's where I got my term from them, a half thought. So you have two types of thoughts. Your thoughts are either facts or they're half thoughts. And a half thought is a thought that's not a 100% true. And that's an important element with CBT because it's definitely not positive thinking because that doesn't work, but it's balancing out your thoughts. So for today, I'd be like, I'm a little nervous. I want to do well, although I have a lot of knowledge. I've done this before, and I'm comfortable with you girls, and it's all going to be good, and it's going to be a fun experience. That's my balanced thought. I'm acknowledging, I might be a little nervous, but I also know I'm going to be okay because of all of this other evidence that I've had from my past being able to talk and share.

Dr Julie

The main tool I teach everybody, I call it fall record, where we pick a situation that creates a negative mood, even if it's a little. People think it's the big stuff. It could be someone's driving too slow in front of you and you're getting all pissed off at them or your day gets screwed up or the person in front of you at the grocery store. Why don't you pull your credit card out? Why are you waiting until everything's done? It's like, Let's get in. And I got somewhere to go. It's that stuff that just irritates us all day long, right? And then we just blow up. So we want to address the little stuff also.

Sherry

It was the opposite. Someone had cut me off and I was with my son yesterday, and it was like,. And then after, I'm like, I'm okay now. It's all good.

Dr Julie

Because in that moment, you don't care about me. You're going to kill me. I got a family. You're selfish. You don't know what you do. That's where the road rage comes from, all those little- And I don't act on it.

Sherry

I'm not bad. No, I do not act on it, but I do allow the Fs to come out verbally. And it's almost like verbally punching a pillow. Not at the person, by the way. It happens that fast. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And once I let it out, it's like an emotional heart. I'm like, Okay.

Dr Julie

And that's okay, again, if you don't act on it, but a lot of people do. They start targeting you. Anyway, so we pick a situation where you've had a negative mood. And it can also be past issues you've not addressed that's still weighing on you, current things in your life, things coming up in the future. There's no rules, anything you want to address. And then we identify your moods, and then we start figuring out what are the thoughts that are going through. And then we want to say, are they hot thoughts, which, again, are the ones that are not 100% true, which is most of our thoughts, to be honest. And then we challenge them. What evidence do you have that this thought is true? What evidence do you have that it's not true? Then we come up with the balanced thought. The one thing I didn't say earlier, I just want to add with the research with CBT, it's been replicated for about 50 years now, is they took PET scans. They had a research group. Nobody was on medication. They took PET scans. That's where you see the picture of your brain when it's red, yellow, blue.

Dr Julie

A lot of people have seen that in a book or something. Then half the group got CBT for 10 weeks, and the other group didn't get any therapy. Then they went back and did another PET scan. They actually saw a change for the better in their brain chemistry for the people that had the CBT, that your prefrontal lobe, the front part here, if you get a PET scan, if there's a lot of say anxiety going on, a lot of red, like your brain's a little bit on fire, it's shooting off. Then it was not as red, and it was calmer just by changing the way you think. It's very powerful. It really does work. It really does work, especially... Medicine has its place. It's not my scope. I'm not saying if you're on medicine, don't make changes. It's all good. But a lot of people don't want to, or they haven't found the help. This can be just as helpful if you have mild and moderate symptoms based on the research. What I was explaining earlier was the fall record. What am I thinking that's causing me to feel this way? And is it 100% true?

Dr Julie

And that's the first thing. Take away today, I tell my clients the first session, when you have a negative mood, just start saying, What am I thinking? Instead of like, Oh, no. If you want to just create that habit that you get into your thoughts a lot quicker than you do now. And then you'll start to see like, Oh, that really isn't true. I don't need to act on that right now.

Molly

You just slow it down a little bit. You take the time.

Dr Julie

Pause and breathe.

Molly

Pause and breathe. Okay. You touched on this a little bit ago in terms of the couples therapy. And mentioning that you can even go on your own and it can start to affect your relationship. So how can it help to improve our relationships? You did touch on this. Why is it focused on working with individuals using CBT as opposed to couples or families?

Sherry

My bad. No, it's not.

Dr Julie

I have really good information on that I can give you, actually.

Molly

Let's talk about it.

Dr Julie

Okay. So when you learn the fall record, what I just explained right now, right? And you're able to be aware of what your thoughts are. It's a fabulous way to communicate. So this is one area where I know I differ from my friends who are marital therapists. I'm going to generalize a little bit, but they're very focused on how you're feeling, how you're feeling, how you're feeling. And I am, too. The whole CBT is change how you feel by changing how you think. That is the goal to feel good. But when say you're talking to your spouse and they come at you and they're like, I'm really angry or I'm hurt, we tend to be like, Oh, no, I'm sorry. What do you need for me to fix that? I say to people, once you learn these CBT tools, that's how you're going to communicate. So, Oh, I'm sorry you're feeling hurt. What are you thinking that's caused you to feel hurt by me? When you ask someone else, when you ask your kid, Oh, my God, I'm never showing up to school again. What are you thinking? Now, most people will be like, I don't know what I was thinking, because they don't.

Dr Julie

They're just reacting. So a little tool I think everyone can use when someone does the I don't know's, say, just take a guess, because then people don't feel like, Oh, I got to know the right answer. But they tend to now, they tend to boom, boom. I'm like, Well, there's your answer. In your communication with your partner, whoever is in your life, I do this with my kids, they start saying all this, and I say, Is that a hot thought? When you have that language together, but to ask the person in your life when they're upset with you, you're having that conversation, what are you thinking that's making you feel that way. I'm in a marriage, too. You get to the issues so much faster, and you can clarify. Maybe they're hurt because they think you forgot something important in the day. When you haven't had a chance to even explain maybe something else that happened that they didn't really forget. But you want to just clarify clarify that. What do you think? Oh, you're thinking I forgot. You're thinking I'm not important to you. If you can address the thought, you can really resolve things a whole lot faster.

Sherry

That's brilliant. We have to timestamp this.

Molly

I did. I wrote it down.

Sherry

I mean, go ahead.

Dr Julie

I just want to say I laugh with my kids because they'll be like... People just want to share emotions. I understand you. That's fine. I'll be like, oh. And then I'm like, well, is that a half on? They're I wanted to be a fact because I'm pissed off. And then they're like, okay, so now they call me, they're like, okay, I got a half thought. I just want to say, can we talk about it? Yeah, that's great. So you can develop this language within your relationships. You laugh at yourself. You're like, okay, no, it's a hot thought. I've said to my husband, I know this is stupid. It's a hot thought. I just got to say it out loud so I can move on because it's just stuck in my head. I think it's brilliant. I love that. Then you just move on.

Sherry

It's almost like an assumption, a hot thought.

Dr Julie

Oh, yes.

Sherry

Really? Because it's never a fact. If it's a fact, you accept it. No one says, are they really dead? You know what I'm saying? Those are facts.

Dr Julie

Yes.

Sherry

But the ones that get us worked up, they're assumptions.

Dr Julie

Yeah. It can be hot thought and a slash assumption. Yes, for sure.

Sherry

Most assumptions are really hot. Can hot thoughts be really good things, too? Like hot, meaning like, of course I'm getting that position. Of course I'm getting that award.

Dr Julie

No.

Sherry

Okay. So it's always something that.

Molly

That was a good question.

Dr Julie

Yeah. No, because that's feeling self-confident. Oh, okay. Those are good thoughts, right? I mean, to pump yourself up for something. I wouldn't say to someone like, Oh, no, don't think that because maybe you won't get it. That's a hot thought.

Sherry

Get your expectations down. Keep those thoughts cool in a case.

Dr Julie

If they came back and didn't get it and said, Oh, am I good enough. There's your half pop. Got you.

Sherry

Okay.

Molly

I love I have that tool, and I have to say, anytime my husband goes out of town, my youngest always comes home with at least one grow note, a red note from school, because everything changes at home. We try to keep it the same in terms of bedtime and blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. But it dad's not here, and now it's mom. And a couple of times recently, I can't tell me how many times this week I've been the worst mom in the world out of his mouth. The worst mom in the world. This family is the worst. So I'm going to use this. I wrote it down. I'm going to use that phrase and try to see if he can... Because he's got big emotions. He's swinging big all the time. I'm really excited to use that with him so we can have that language. I love that you have that language with your husband and your kids.

Dr Julie

Yeah. So you could say to him, I would sit down with him and write down, this is the worst family. And then say, what evidence, what facts can you give me that this is the worst family? Now, normally, the mistake people make here is they come up with more hot thoughts to support their hot thoughts.

Molly

Sure. Sure.

Dr Julie

So many times, it happens often, people's hot thoughts are so strong, they have no evidence to support them, but they're making life decisions based on them. And that's always very profound to me. You're making life decisions based on thoughts that aren't even true. And that's why people really need tools. So your son might say, Oh, you don't let me stay up to finish my show. And you can write, Oh, okay, that's evidence. I don't let you stay I'll write it down on the paper. And then the next column is what evidence is there that doesn't support the how thought? I know mom and dad love me. Sometimes you let me finish my show. You're always there for me. Then you could say, Okay, yeah, sometimes I don't let you finish your show because it's bedtime, but there's other times I do, and you know you're loved and cared for. And that's the balanced thinking. You're acknowledging like, Yeah, sometimes I am whatever the worst means to you, but there's also this other evidence. So you want them to have more of the balanced thinking. And that's the difference between CBT and positive thinking is we're acknowledging that there may be some truth in the negative part of your thought, but there's also some parts that are positive, and that's where you get to the balanced thinking.

Dr Julie

And that's the difference. I always say positive thinking doesn't work because the last two minutes, it's like for the last leg of the marathon because I can tell my client, Oh, you're going to be fine. Don't Oh, Dr. Julissa, I'm going to be fine. That really feels good. And then they leave my office in five minutes. They're like, Based on what? Like, positive thinking. If it did, we all be good because we can all positively think.

Sherry

Yeah. I found For me, any anxiety I have is helped through the cognitive behavioral therapy is to go, Yeah, I'm anxious. It doesn't stop me from going after what I want. You make friends with it. You acknowledge it. The elephant in room, you're like, There it is. It's anxiety, butterflies, dry throat. Whereas before cognitive behavioral therapy, I would say, Oh, my God, I'm getting anxious. And you lost yourself in the feeling.

Dr Julie

And that's where genic attacks come from, right? Oh, my God, I'm dying. I'm having a heart attack instead of recognizing that this is very heightened anxiety, what's going on. Yeah.

Sherry

What about... I have a question that When you ask this brilliant question, what are you thinking that makes you feel that way? Does that work with malignant narcissists, people who are on the spectrum? I mean, that's a fair question, right?

Dr Julie

Or maybe it's not. Narcist is very tough. I can tell you a story. I had a man come in one time that said, I know I'm a narcist. I want some help. Okay. Okay. Like, wow, you're almost narcissists. Never acknowledged they are narcissists. Okay. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I can tell you, I think it was in the second session, he stood up, yelled at me and walked out the door.

Sherry

Okay. That's what I thought. Okay. That's why I was like, because this works with so many people, but there are people, you know who I'm talking about, not specific, obviously, but there are those humans walking around our planet, whether they're a mother, father, sister, brother, cousin, rabbi, minister, you know these people instinctively, I can't say, what are you thinking that's making you feel that way? Because they'll just deflect.

Dr Julie

Or if they say it, to be able to challenge it, that's where they're going to get... The defense just comes back. I'm not trained to deal with them. Personally disorders definitely can be helped through therapy. Those are some tough ones. I'm definitely into refer to get the minds the best therapist for them and who specialized in that. When you say the spectrum, I've worked with a handful of people with Asperger's.

Sherry

Yeah, I meant the spectrum of socio-pathology.

Dr Julie

Yeah, if you found... You'd have to find the right person, very skilled, trained in that to really help, and that person to be able to sit with that. It's tough, but there's definitely people out there that can work with those personalities and maybe help them.

Sherry

Wow. If they want to, it always comes down to free will.

Molly

Always.

Sherry

Well, we don't want to- Yeah.

Dr Julie

I'm sorry. I just wanted to say one thing. It might be something for your listeners to think about. A lot of times people come in a therapy like, Oh, I'm in crisis. I need help, whatever. And I always say, you get them here. They can start to breathe again, and then they, I'm good, and they stop therapy. And then I have my clients who have really stayed and learned everything, and they'll say to me, Oh, now I get Now I get therapy, like why it's good to really finish and address everything. Most people just feel like they're drowning, and they can start to breathe a little, and you never see them again. Because it's painful to address. And CBT, sometimes my client is going, I feel more depressed when I'm working on the workbook. And I said, Yeah, because you're dealing with your stuff. You get to it quick with CBT. And then you're just there. And so we work through that. But I've had many people say, Oh, Because, yeah, there is always homework with CBT, and you're working on this stuff, and they're like, oh, all these emotions are coming up. And I'm like, that's good.

Dr Julie

That's what we want to work on. That's why we're here. So a lot of people leave therapy way too early. They Now I can handle it enough. But they're going to relapse again because they just don't have the tools.

Molly

You said about 10 weeks or 10 sessions, sometimes you said. But is that up to you decide between you and your client? I feel like you're ready to go on with your tools. Is that something you talk about together? How does that work?

Dr Julie

Yeah. My first session, really, and I was taught this in my grad school. But your first session, you actually talk about when you're going to terminate the therapy. Because you want to empower people, and therapy isn't forever. You're here to get better and you get back on with your life. So we talk about as you start to get better, we're going to start spacing out the sessions. Okay. Yeah. Then until when you're ready to feel like, Yeah, I got it. I'm doing much better. In the workbook that my clients use, The Mind Over Mood, every week there's a scale that they do their depression, anxiety, where it's very concrete with some numbers. We know where they're at and we can see their progress. Then people will finish up and then my door is always open. They may come in for a booster session, I call. Like, Oh, I just need to come in. Something happened I need to check back with you. Oh, sure. But yeah, people are really working it. I'm telling you, 8-10 sessions. I know it's logical, but it still surprises me sometimes. It's not like, wow. Some people really take to this.

Dr Julie

They come in, they do their homework, they're on it, and it can change. I practice everything I preach. I tell everybody that also. I practice everything. I believe in it, and I think you need to if you're going to teach people to follow through because it does take some It's a commitment to actually take the time to do the homework in between the sessions.

Sherry

Can people work with you over Zoom? Let's say someone is listening to this and they're like, Yeah, but I'm in Bangladesh, or I don't know.

Dr Julie

Half of my practice is Telehealth. Okay, perfect. I only go to the office twice a week now, and then the rest is Telehealth. And as long as I'm licensed in the state that you live in, I'm licensed in four or five states that I can work with you. But if not, I always get people referrals. Always, always, always. And I have a referral for CBT therapist that I'm always like, look this up. This is where you can find somebody. And I tell people, if you ever call a therapist and they can't help you for whatever reason, don't hang up unless you ask them if they have a referral. Because we all have people in our network and you want to get... If someone's reaching out, you want to get them hooked up with somebody. Right. Otherwise, they get off the phone. It's like, Okay, I don't know. Who do I call now? This is the one person I got to help me. I don't know what to do.

Sherry

Especially in crisis.

Dr Julie

Yeah, especially in crisis. But it might be that little window that someone's open to it. I have people say, Oh, my God, thank you. Okay, I'll call them. They're shocked that I've taken the time to say, Here's some other people reach out, or they take your insurance, or they live where I'm not licensed there. People feel so grateful that you care enough to say, here, I want you to find somebody, even though I'm not the person for you or I can't work with you for whatever reason. Because especially when you're in that moment, you feel probably alone, overwhelmed. You don't know what to do. Where am I going to go? And it's like, Oh, you gave me a name. You trust this person. So that gives me a little bit of trust also. So there's a lot that can go on just with giving somebody a referral.

Sherry

Absolutely. You're helping heal the planet It's on it, Dr. Julie.

Molly

Yes. And the one place everybody can start is to check out your podcast.

Dr Julie

Yes. It's free. Free therapy.

Molly

Yeah.

Dr Julie

Yeah.

Sherry

My MyCBT podcast.

Dr Julie

Yes. I've heard from people. It's been very humbling. You guys will probably experience this also when people reach out to you that I didn't really... When I started like, Oh, the United States, I didn't really understand the platform thing. My kids pushed, Oh, mom, you should do this. I have heard from all over the world, I have cried over emails I've received from people saying, I finally understand the CBT or I can't afford therapy. So you can see, I get a little specious. I can't believe how much it has helped others. I'm just so thrilled because that was my intention, just wanting to... I believe in it, and I think the more people with the tools, the world will be a better place, and the more people that can learn it. So I'm just so grateful that so many people listen.

Molly

Okay. That's amazing. I could say your handles, but I'm going to let you tell us where we can find you. On Instagram?

Dr Julie

Yeah, my CBT on Instagram, on Facebook under Dr. Julie Osborne. My podcast itself is on a lot of platforms, so Apple, Spotify, a lot of ones other there. My website is mycognitivebehavioltherapy. Com. On there, you can get to my podcast. I have newsletters, a lot of information, some videos talking about what CBT is. So there's a lot of good stuff on my website as well. And you can contact me through my website and my emails on there. I have a couple, but the easiest one to remember probably is my cbtpodcast@gmail. Com. And I respond to every email that I get.

Molly

Oh, amazing.

Sherry

You're wonderful. You're helping so many people. Thank you. May this go viral and whoever needs to hear it gets to reach out to you. And if you can't help them, they'll be referred by you.

Dr Julie

Yes, for sure. Reach Yeah, I love it. It's really good. And at least in the United States, I can tell you, in California, Arizona, state of Washington, Carolina, and South Carolina, I am licensed in those states. If you happen to live in those states. But again, if not, just reach out. On my website, too, there's my referrals on there as well for people to find a CBT trained therapist. That's what you want to ask. If you're looking, ask the person, Is this your specialty? If they're like, Yeah, I do with other stuff. If you want CBT, just say thank you and find somebody that really specialized. It really makes a difference.

Sherry

And Mind Over Mood is the book you work with with patients.

Dr Julie

Can I show it to you? Yeah. It's on my website. So if you go to my shop, I have a little bit of merchandise with my mantra, which is make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.

Molly

Yes.

Dr Julie

So if you go on my shop or store, it says, I'm sorry, there's some merchandise. But if you go to the bottom, there's a couple of books there that I talk about often. If you click it, it'll just take you straight to Amazon. So I use Mind Over Mood by Dr. Greenberger and Dr. Podesky, and then Feeling Great by Dr. David Burns. I also have a lot of training with him. He's a CBT guru, and he's done Team CBT, which is just more CBT tools. So that would be another book. He did Feeling Good, and then he's also done feeling great. But you can find those again on my website on the store page.

Sherry

Could someone listening to this purchase these items and say, I don't know if I want therapy, but I I can definitely use these tools on my own.

Dr Julie

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The thing with therapy, I would say, it helps you get a little deeper because when I work with my clients, I'm like, Oh, I wouldn't have thought of that. I wouldn't have asked myself.

Sherry

The blind spot.

Dr Julie

Totally. No, a lot A lot of people, I know definitely Dr. Burns has talked about his Feeling Good book. Many people have recovered from depression, anxiety just from reading the book and using the tools. It's not just reading something. You got to use the tools. You got to do it. You got to do it, Yeah. But again, when you practice enough, it'll just become the new you. It will just be there. You'll realize that you're in your thoughts a lot quicker, and it just becomes more of a good habit.

Sherry

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Dr. Julie.

Molly

Well, that's a wrap. Remember, when everything is going wrong, it just means you're crafting a great story. Stay tuned for more episodes where we turn Life's Lemons into Laffable tales. Don't forget to like and subscribe and keep finding the best and the worst because life's too ridiculous not to laugh at it.