Episode #79 

How To Recover After Divorce

Whether you're going through or have been through an 'easy' or difficult divorce, a lot of pain, uncertainty, and self-doubt can result.

How can you restore your self-esteem after a divorce?

How can you figure out who you are without your ex, without this marriage?

And how can you heal to become healthier emotionally than you were before?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, in this listener-requested episode as I share with you practical CBT tips and tools you can use as you work through the process.

Click to listen now!

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Full Episode Transcript

Hi, my name is Dr. Julie Osborn. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life. So in this podcast I'm going to answer your questions and share with you some practical ways to apply CBT principles so you can achieve a greater level of happiness and satisfaction in your life and your relationships.

I appreciate you being with me today, and I hope all of you are doing and well, I'm going to start off by sharing a really great email I received from one of my listeners.

Again, I always encourage you guys to email me with questions, feedback, ideas for podcasts. They're all really helpful and I definitely respond. Sometimes not as fast as I like, but I do get back to everybody and use your ideas in future podcasts as well.

So today I'm going to start off with an email from Ed - he gave me permission to use his first name. So it says:

“Hi, Dr. Osborn,

I'm among the many that your podcast has helped in a number of ways over the past couple of years. Thank you for the effort you put into it and for the empathy and kindness that you exceed. Over the past several years, I've been struggling with jealousy. I frequently compare myself to others and get angry or bitter, seeing if I perceive their quote doing better than I am. Most commonly the comparisons are related to finances and career, but I've experienced this in other areas as well, and there's usually a regret aspect to it around more generally quote, if I have made better choices when I was younger.

The part that makes this so incredibly frustrating is that my life is pretty great. Good job, great family, etc. And several of your podcasts have discussed various aspects I've mentioned, but I was wondering if you have one that addresses this topic specifically. Thank you.

Best, Ed.”

So thank you Ed for your kind words and great topic.

I am going to be working on one in the future specifically on jealousy, but I do have a couple that I think would be helpful and I wanted to just address this before I get into my topic for today. Some old podcasts you can listen to Rachel's would be about comparing yourself to others would be really helpful. And then of course always doing the ABCs of CBT, which goes through an entire thought record which helps you identify what are your thoughts that are making you feel jealous and then challenging those have more balanced thinking. So I want to say I think it's normal that we all have moments of jealousy. The problem is when it becomes a big problem, it's like that green monster they talk about, right?

And it really can feed at us. And that's where being jealous is. Definitely comparing yourself to somebody else. They have more, they're better, they're smarter, they're more successful, etcetera. Etcetera.

And so I think another podcast would be helpful is on being present, which I have a podcast on, because as soon as we get caught up in other people's lives that are quote doing better than us or have things that we want or we think we want right? Then we're not being present and we're not being focused on our gratitude, on where we are and where our life is. So there will be some things to get started to help address the feelings of jealousy. And if there really are things that you think you want that you don't have, what can you do to get there if that's that important to you? The side note, and we probably will never know this until we experience it.

But I've worked with enough people that are extremely wealthy and sometimes when they get all that money, they don't even know what to do with it or how to manage it and it actually stresses out.

So it's not always a blessing. We want to be focused on what we need before we focus on what we want and then really ask ourselves, why do I even want that? What are my assumptions that I think it's going to create in my life that's better than what I have now? And I've always heard this analogy that if everybody in a big circle together, we all threw our problems in the middle and you could pick someone else's problems, you would take your own and go back home because the grass is always greener on the other side. Right?

So really think about what is it I'm jealous of and why am I jealous? And are my thoughts that I'm thinking which are making me feel that way really true? Remember, you can always do a fall record. I do them every day, every day, every day because I got thoughts going on like all of you guys, and I have to be aware of them when I'm having negative moods and say, Is it really true? My other podcast on gratitude would also be helpful.

I'm thinking about some more podcasts as I'm talking. So that's why I don't have them in a little succinct order for you guys. But there are so many out there now that I think there'd be a lot. And I will do my homework and put together a podcast just on jealousy in the future. But I hope that this lease gives you some ideas on where to get started to start not holding back, honing in, I should say, your feelings of jealousy so you feel better about you and can really appreciate the great life that you said you actually do have and know that things will always come up in the future that you'll say, oh, wow, I wish I did this.

Or they have something I want. And getting back to being present again, as I said earlier, is what really kind of can ground us and realize that, you know what? I have everything I need and maybe even a little more. And that's good enough. So I hope that's a start.

What I want to talk about today is divorce. So I'm talking about divorce because I actually did have someone asked me to talk about that in the terms of people's feelings about their self esteem after they get divorced and going forward and what that looks like. So it's very complicated. It can be very messy divorces, right. Some are easy and some are not.

And even if you are happy you are getting divorced, it doesn't mean it doesn't affect how you feel about yourself, possibly how you feel about or see your future. Other worries about that. So I kind of thought that would be some good things to address. As I said, I had a request regarding talking about divorce, and I do have a little bit of statistics just to kind of bring you guys up to date where our society is regarding divorce. So the most recent research I was able to find was for 2021.

In the United States, the divorce rate for first marriages is 45%.

For a second marriage, it's 60% that you'll get divorced, and for third marriages at 73%. I'll tell you my theory on why that happens, but those are the statistics. And back in 1981 was when the United States had an all time high of divorce rates, which was 53%, which is really high. So we're still at about 50% if give or take. Again, this is from last year.

And there's lots of different reasons people decide to get divorced, right? So the most common is a lack of commitment to the relationship infidelity conflict and arguing money is always a big issue, obviously, domestic violence and substance abuse. Most people blame their partners rather than looking at themselves when it comes to the divorce. Just a little side note, I just happen to have this on the information I was looking at. Arkansas has the highest divorce rate didn't explain why.

But for those of you that might be listing Arkansas, I'm sorry about that. They also talk about men experience more health issues after divorce, such as waking depression, anxiety, insomnia and divorce obviously can influence your wellbeing, right. For men and women feeling depressed, feeling isolated, losing friendships, your self esteem issues, your emotional, spiritual and financial relationships can be very painful going through a divorce. There's so many different losses, more so than just the marriage. And emotional intensity usually reaches its peak in about six months of the separation, but it could still take a couple of years for you to really feel like you're at a place where you can move forward.

It's incredibly challenging when your plan for the future is to be with your partner, and then it all changes. You know, I think even more so when someone else wants to divorce you. But even if you're making that decision and you want to remember that everyone's journey is different. So be careful about comparing yourself and you need to process the grief for yourself. So I can just give you a little background on myself.

So I went through a lot of divorce just as a kid. My dad was married three times. My mom was married twice. When my parents divorced, I didn't know anybody's parents that were divorced. This was back in the 70s.

And my mom actually divorced my dad and she left. And I grew up with my father. I would see her like once a year, but it was very difficult. And I'm not here to talk about children going through divorce. But I know knowing my dad, who was an excellent father, it was very, very difficult for his own self worth that my mom left.

And even though I can say as an adult now, it was good they got divorced because they weren't a good couple. I didn't know any of this as a child, of course. But looking back now, we can look back at our parents relationships and have more insight. But it was a hard hit, I know for my dad when my mom left. And I think people obviously still go through that today when somebody leaves you and that's not what you want, obviously, right.

A lot of times it's a shock. A lot of times people don't see it coming or one person is just more committed to the relationship for whatever reason than the other person. And you can't control somebody, which is really frustrating too, right. And they're going to leave and you're like, oh, my God, my whole world is going to get pulled apart. I myself was divorced.

I was married for very, very short time in my first marriage. And I wanted the divorce. And it was what was best for me and my exhusband. But there's still all the emotional baggage you have to walk through before you can move on to the next relationship. So I didn't have a divorce, so I had to deal with much meaning I didn't have any children with him.

We didn't have any property. It was just kind of easy divorce, quote, easy to be able to move on. There's so much more that goes on when you have a family and children and so many people are being affected by this. But even though those things you have to address, if that's part of your life, you as an individual also have to deal with how do I feel about myself, my self esteem? How do I see my future now that I'm someone that's divorced?

Obviously, nobody plans to get divorced. Nobody goes to get married, which is a huge commitment, thinking it's not going to work. Right. So you're in this marriage, doing your thing, having your family, maybe you're just building your life together, seeing a future together, and then something happens and all of that changes and you didn't plan for it. Right.

So it's like, what am I going to do? I don't have a plan. I didn't think it was going to be a part of my life. A lot of people get divorced, too, where they didn't come from a divorced family, so they don't have anything to fall back on. You have to find the right people that can support you that maybe have gone through this already that you can see.

How do they deal with it, what was best for them? A lot of times, as I mentioned earlier, the loss of friendships. I work with couples all the time or individuals, I'm sorry, that have shared with me that as couples, they had other couples they hung out with and now they broke up. And a lot of times one person lose a lot of those friendships. Right.

Because maybe the friendships came through the wife or through the husband. People feel uncomfortable sometimes. They don't know how to manage keeping friends with both people if they want to. So now I have the loss of my marriage and I have the loss of friendships, which is also my support system. So there's lots of things you have to take into consideration when you're going through that and understanding when you feel sad and you're feeling depressed, how normal it is because so many layers of your life are changing.

And it's easy to get depressed and to feel sad and to really question yourself and think, I've had people say, who's going to want me? I'm divorced, right. Especially if you have children, who's going to want to take on my kids. Right. Again, there's all these different layers.

So a lot of times people might just isolate themselves even more thinking nobody's going to be interested me, I'm a package. If I have children, who's going to want to take that on? Also, there's another factor a lot of people consider about. Am I getting along with my ex and how that can affect my relationship going forward? So again, there's lots of things that can make you think that you're not worthy or lovable or desired or wanted by somebody new because you've gone through this divorce.

I know my parents obviously been divorced for almost 50 years ago. I guess now divorce is much more accepted. I don't think it's looked down on like it was before. And people see it as an option where back in the days people just didn't get divorced no matter what, maybe for religious reasons or whatever their belief system was. So nowadays I don't think people are shocked, oh, you're divorced.

Okay. I don't think there's as much judgment from others, but it's about the judgment you put on yourself. And that's what I wanted to talk to you about today. It's really, really important if you're going through this journey, that you take care of yourself before you move on to the next relationship, and you need to process the loss so you can set yourself up for more of a hopeful future in a better relationship and for you to feel strong and confident and accepting and making peace with your divorce can also help increase your hopefulness for the future and you can get to a place where you have a renewed sense of freedom and relief. A lot of times, once everything kind of calms down.

A lot of times you can go back and do some self reflection and see why was it a good decision, even if it wasn't your choice to be able to move on from the relationship, right. That even if it wasn't your choice to get divorced, you might say, you know, maybe I really wasn't being honest with myself and I wasn't really happy. Right. Or I was putting up with things that I just kind of kept pushing to the side because I didn't know how to deal with them or I was afraid that I really was afraid they were going to leave me. I really didn't feel that commitment.

I didn't really feel loved the way I needed to. But it was better to be with that person than to go through a divorce. So a lot of people stay even though they're not happy and later on they can look back and say even if though I didn't have the strength to do it, which is okay, it really ended up being a blessing for me because I'm much happier and you probably will find a better partner going forward. I think a lot of people don't need to get divorced. They do get divorced because just my experience as a therapist, when I have seen couples, they usually come to me when they're ready to sign the divorce papers.

I know I've talked about this in some other podcasts before, but it's like, well, if we can't fix it here, we're done. Or very often one person is done and the other person is just freaking out about the whole thing and they're just dragging them into therapy. And at that point it's usually very difficult to get back into it to work on things. So sometimes it's best to get divorced. But if you are having issues in your marriage now, your relationship, if you just feel like there are just bumps in the road, go, don't wait.

Go. When you have bumps right now, when you're falling off the bridge, right. Go early and don't feel ashamed. See, that's your strength. That you know what, we're kind of stuck.

We need a little bit of help here. We just can't seem to figure this, this or that out. Or we keep fighting about money or sex, which are like two of the biggest issues that relationships have that they fight about. We just need some help to figure this out so we can go forward. What most people do is they don't deal with it and it just becomes bigger and bigger until the marriage ends.

So, you know, the probably be lower again. Some people need to be divorced. Some people are better off not together, that is for sure. But a lot of times things can be fixed earlier so that's just a little side note I wanted to add. There don't wait till everything's at the end.

If it's those kind of issues, obviously, if it's safety issues like domestic violence, if there's substance abuse and the person is willing to get well, that's safety issues that you need to move forward and get out of that environment until someone unless they get help or you decide to just get divorced. But you want to take the time to really start thinking about what are my thoughts about myself now that I'm divorced and if I'm having these negative self critical thoughts and making assumptions about how the world or others see me, I really need to use my CBT tools to start making changes. Whatever those thoughts, as I said earlier, about not maybe being wanted or not being lovable or I'm older now. Who's going to want me at this age? I have people say those things to me.

I'm a package deal. I have the children or I have this debt, all these things that I'm going to bring maybe into another relationship that people aren't going to want to be with me. It's very black and white thinking, and then that holds you back. And again, it makes you feel bad about yourself. You don't have to feel bad about yourself.

I wanted to address this before I forget on why the statistics get worse for second and third marriages is that my theory is that because we tend to blame our spouse for the reasons why we got divorced and the problems in the relationship, we don't look at ourselves so we don't work on ourselves. So then we just go out and we meet another person that's probably no more healthier than the last relationship. And we always bring people into our lives based on where we are emotionally. You're not going to get a healthier person than you right? You're going to bring someone in.

It where you're at. And if you don't work on yourself, it's going to be harder to find a healthier relationship because you're not healthier. And I think that's why second marriages have a higher rate. When I've worked with some of my clients, they'll come into therapy on their second divorce, and they say, maybe I need to start looking at myself and say what's going on? Because I can't believe I'm getting divorced again.

Third divorces are like 73%, which is super high. And that might be again, if people are just getting divorced and getting into relationships too quickly and just getting married. Married, married. A lot of people are very into getting married. I know we know a lot of famous people you could say had four or five marriages.

You're like, wow, they want to be married and it's important, but they don't stop and really look at the bigger picture and see what goes into a good marriage so they don't get divorced again. So that's my theory. Why each marriage divorce rate seems to be going up. So if you take the time, if you've been divorced, you're going through a breakup. And I'm using the word divorce here because that's what the email I received requesting.

But obviously that's even any kind of breakup, you look at it as an opportunity to work on yourself and to look at your part and what are the things that you probably ignored? When I've worked with couples as well, I'll say, when did these issues start? And like 95% of the time when we were dating, I thought it would get better. I just thought we had a bad fight. And the way he or she spoke to me was just that one time.

Very often you can go back and see that. So what are the things I need to do now? Because now this marriage, this relationship is ending. I don't want to have this happen again. I want to go forward and have a better relationship.

I also hear a lot of people say, oh, I'll never get married again, never get married again. And that's super common. I know my ex husband said that, and as far as I know, he has gotten remarried again. And I hope wishing him the best and that he's happy. But people just say that in the moment, right?

You're in so much pain, you're like, I'm never going to do it again. And obviously, I never said that, but I got married again, but I didn't feel that way when I got divorced. And I knew that at some point I was still pretty young, that I would find someone else that would be a much better fit for me and I would be happy with and have a good marriage. And I really worked on myself before I got into my second marriage, which paid off. And that was just really important to do.

If you're having negative thoughts about yourself, write down on a piece of paper. What are your exact thoughts figure out. Are they hot thoughts? Right? Are they thoughts that are 100% true?

Look at the evidence for and against that. Allow yourself to go through the grief. Allow yourself to be angry. Allow yourself to cry. Allow yourself to do whatever you need to do.

How much time? I know I said normally in about two years, people are in a place to move on, but it might be sooner for you. It might be longer. Don't get caught up in numbers. And when should I be ready?

When should I start dating? It's so individual. There's just no numbers regarding moving on in your life. But you want to be more aware of how am I feeling about me. And if I do have low self esteem or think that I'm not desirable, why is that?

And is that getting in the way of me growing and working on my issues and being able to go and meet somebody new? So it's a huge loss in your life. And like any loss, grief is any loss. It's not just death, any loss you have. This is a loss for most people.

It's a disappointment. And I think back to how happy they were when they were together on their wedding day or moving in together, all those exciting things that we go through in a relationship. And it's really sad when it doesn't work out, especially when we had so many hopes and dreams and now those aren't there. And the thought of starting with somebody new can be overwhelming. I totally get that.

So this is an opportunity, as I was saying earlier, to say, okay, I don't need to worry about who I'm going to end up with or what my future is going to look like. What I need to do is have good self care, figure out what are my issues. Maybe to go to a therapist and work on that. You can always just using the mind over mood workbook that I use and learning the CBT tools will help you have more insight to yourself, understand how you're thinking, which is why you're feeling maybe sad or depressed or overwhelmed or hopeless about the future. And to be able to use those tools, you also really want to build up your support network.

I know a handful of clients that went to divorce support groups they found super helpful, especially if you have lost friendships and support network because of your separate divorce, your break up. You need to create that again. That's something you might find through a group or through maybe your religious affiliation. They sometimes have support groups through temples or churches, reaching out to friends. Sometimes they may not know how to approach you or how you feel about things.

Just say you're comfortable talking to me. I don't want to put you in the middle, but you've always been there for me. I like our friendship to still be strong. So if someone isn't just there for you automatically, again, you can reach out. Don't isolate yourself though, because that's where you're going to get caught up in your negative thoughts, which creates your moods, right?

And then the behavior is the isolation and being withdrawn. And not if you're feeling ashamed or embarrassed. Like again, we really need to figure out what are you thinking about that's making you feel that way?

Especially if it's not something that you wanted. That's where the shame and the guilt and embarrassment might come in also. But why am I feeling that way? Because of how I'm thinking and it's probably not true. And how can we do better?

The beauty of the world is that every moment, every day is a chance to do better and to start over. We don't have to wait a certain amount of time. We can say, Today's my day. I'm going to start doing things different. And the next time I go forward and meet somebody and I'm ready to date and have a relationship in my life again, I'm going to be healthier and I'm going to feel more worthy, and I'm going to feel better about myself.

So that's the kind of person I can attract.

So things happen in life, right? Life can be rough sometimes. It's not always easy, but it's always opportunities to be healthier and to see how strong you are and to see how resilient you are. And that whatever you're going through that you're going to be able to get past this. And if you work on yourself, you'll be better for it.

If you don't, you'll just be in the same place probably. And you may just end up in another unhappy relationship. And you deserve better, because going through a breakup can be very painful and you deserve to have a happier relationship. You deserve to be happier. If you do have children, they deserve to have happier parents and to be able to move forward and to show that this is a tough time for me or my family.

But with our supporting each other and working and looking at my stuff and saying what contributed to this relationship that wasn't healthy, that I can control, that I can change, and then I can feel good about going forward. So not just this podcast, but there's lots so many things I talked about today about good selfesteem healthy relationships, good communication. I've got lots of different podcasts. If you guys can just go back and search my older podcast and you can find more information regarding relationships. But I thought when I got the suggestion it was a good one to talk about divorce because it's a different type of commitment that people feel really strong about.

We made these vows to each other. We did it with all our friends and family. People feel this really strong kind of commitment, like we need to make this work, right? So then you get the legal part that gets involved. It can be messy, it can be a headache and be exhausting.

It could just make you feel bad. So you want to take the time and figure out, where am I with that? And if you think you're okay, that's great. But maybe ask people you're really close to, how do you see I'm doing? I don't want you to be in denial, which is part of grief.

I'm fine. I'm glad I'm divorced. I'm glad that he or she's out of my life. I'm fine. You probably have some feelings.

Even if you're happier now with that person, you may feel bad about losing the marriage, that's kind of its own entity in itself. So sometimes asking others in our lives, how do you think I'm doing? And maybe they can bring up, hey, maybe drinking a little more. I don't see as much. You seem a little bit more on edge.

And to be open to that feedback, to say, okay, you know what? Maybe I do need to really be more open and honest with myself so I can work on these things and not just be angry at my ex because that's not going to get me anywhere. Even if it's justified, you don't want to hold on to it because it's just going to keep you in an unhealthy state of mind. And as I was saying earlier, you deserve better. You deserve to be loved, to be happy and to have loving relationships in your life as well.

So that's it for today. I hope this was helpful for you.

If you have a question I would love to answer for you. You can email me at mycbtpodcast@gmail.com.

You can find me on Instagram under @mycbtpodcast; on Facebook under Dr. Julie Osborn; and my website is mycognitivebehavioraltherapy.com.

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