Episode #157

Hank Green, Cancer, Anxiety & CBT

In the popular YouTube channel Vlog Brothers, host Hank Green recently shared the nebulous anxiety that came up from him from a checkup with his oncologist.

If you’ve been through a cancer diagnosis and treatment, or another traumatic journey, do you find yourself feeling anxious for no apparent reason?

How can Cognitive Behavioral Therapy help you when you’re not aware of any hot thoughts that need addressing?

How can you ‘murder your anxiety’?

Join me, Dr Julie, as I share with you some simple CBT tools that can help you understand and cope with nebulous anxiety.

Click to listen now!

 
 

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, it's Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

So thanks for being with me here today, and I hope all of you are doing well.

I wanted to talk about a really interesting YouTube video that I recently watched. So it's called Vlog brothers. It's a YouTube channel and it's brothers John Green, who's a pretty famous author, very famous author, I should say, and his brother Hank Green, and they have a YouTube channel where they've been doing video letters to each other over the last couple years that people follow. And his last video, which is Hankering, was called I still don't have cancer and I'm scared. So just to give you a little bit of background from what he shared in the video that you can watch yourself, obviously is about two years ago he had Hopkins lymphoma and he is doing well, doesn't have cancer anymore.

And he obviously still, you know, go gets checkups. Right. Like all of us that have been through cancer, we want to follow up, make sure we're doing okay. And so his video was talking about how he had an oncology checkup due to concerns he had with some swollen lymph nodes. Turns out that he was just had like a bad cold, but he still wanted to get checked out because, you know, he's made him feel a little nervous, which is understandable.

He went to see his oncologist and everything was okay. So what he shared in the video was later on he had like this nebulous fear, you know, since his diagnosis. Right. That, you know, that although he knew he was healthy and his oncologist gave him tons of reassurance and told him that he worried too much and had too much information. So he came with all these other concerns.

And he's also concerned about things in the world as well. He shared in this particular video that he still has this underlying fear and when he was lying in bed, he just couldn't really pinpoint it. He's like, you know, I was told, I don't have cancer, I'm fine, I'm healthy. But I still couldn't find the source of like this free floating anxiety. And he happened to say that in the video that he would love a CB therapist to address this fear that he can't seem to pin down, down, you know, to one particular thing.

So I thought, well, I'm a CBT therapist. I'M going to take advantage of that, and I'd love to answer his question. So the interesting thing is, as I was thinking about, you know, the video was done, I believe, a few days ago. We were probably at our oncologist at the same time. So for those of you that don't know.

And I did about three or four podcasts on my journey when I had ovarian cancer as very difficult time in my life. And I was actually doing my checkup last Thursday and got great results, as I always do, which I really appreciate. But I remember I was feeling fine that morning. I was feeling fine, going. I actually enjoy seeing him.

I really like my doctor. And when I was waiting in the room for him to come in to do the checkup, I started feeling, you know, my heart start pounding fast. And I thought, okay, I don't have any particular thoughts. I'm not nervous. I actually have to do blood work every time I get a checkup.

And I already had the results, which were excellent. So I knew I didn't have any concerns. But just sitting there in the room, you know, my brain just remembered, like, oh, you're seeing your oncologist. You had cancer before reality. The truth is, I've had cancer twice.

I had melanoma before, and then I had my ovarian cancer. Ovarian cancer was a lot more difficult because the surgery was more difficult, and I had to actually do chemo, which made it all much more real. And your brain remembers there's a part of your brain called the amygdala which stores, I would say, like, a lot of, you know, your trauma, say, in your past. So there's no thoughts, which I talk about all the time in cbt, right? What are your thoughts?

There's no thoughts in your amygdala, but it's all, like, sights, sounds, smells, you know, all those things that, like, trigger us, right? So my heart starts beating fast, and I'm like, okay, Julie, what's going on? You can relax. You had a good blood test. This is like, you know, your routine.

I am almost out four years. My doctor has told me he's very, very certain that I will not have this cancer again. And I have to go five years, because that's just, you know, the protocol, which is fine with me. But anyways, you know, I'm really out, you know, many years out, and I've been doing great, which is wonderful. But there's my heart pounding, pounding, pounding.

So I'm like, okay, let's do some deep breathing, right? I just want to relax my body. The nurse came in. My blood pressure actually was good. I thought, oh, it's going to be a little high because my heart's going.

And, you know, but it was just being in that room. So when I listened to Hank's video, I thought, well, I know what he's talking about, because our brain remembers by all the environmental triggers when we go to see a doctor or maybe when you go to a hospital, right? I had to go to the hospital after my cancer, you know, to see other people, visit people. I really had a hard time the first couple years. I really had a hard time getting my blood work done the first couple years, and now I'm okay when I go do that.

But just being in that moment, you know, your body sending you messages like, oh, this is like an anxious place. You know, my brain's remembering things, even though I really don't have any thoughts going on, that that's causing me to feel anxious, but our body reacts. So my answer, just wanting to share with Hank is one of his things he also said was, since he couldn't find a source of his anxiety, is he says, can I murder my anxiety? Can I, you know, be angry enough that it's just going to go away? And so that would.

I. That's what I wanted to, you know, answer that. You know, if we could murder anxiety, right? If we could just say, go away, we all would have done that, because that's easy. But what I find and I share with my clients, which is part of CBT training as well, and a tool, is that instead of, you know, saying, I shouldn't feel this way, because, right, we don't want to scold ourselves.

Right? You know, why is this happening? I just got good news. I. I can't pinpoint this.

You know, that the thing that I find most helpful is acceptance. Right. I accept that because of what I went through and the uncertainty of cancer. Meaning that I can tell you that I had a lot of other of my regular doctors were shocked when they found out that I had cancer because I didn't have any, you know, risks. Like, I'm healthy.

My blood work always comes back. Well, I had no family history of it. Like, they're like, what, you got ovarian cancer? So, you know, it just reminds you that any of us can get cancer even when we're doing our best to be healthy. And I'm not here to scare you guys, but, I mean, that's just the reality of it, right?

So, you know, we're thinking, no, that won't happen to me. But it just makes you realize like, we're all vulnerable. Right? And we're going to do whatever we can to stay healthy and avoid that happening to us. But there is that risk, right?

So our mortality is, you know, challenge. We think about it. How do I want to live my life now? Because I went through this. So that free floating anxiety, you know, comes up and it's, it's accepting it like, okay, that's okay.

That I am anxious, waiting for my doctor to come see me. Because it was probably one of the most physically difficulting things I ever went through. Difficulty is not really a word. Right. It was physically difficult.

Things I went through was that, you know, if you listen to my story, it was hell. Just getting help and getting the surgery that was enough to, you know, take you to your knees. And then I got the help and then the surgery was, you know, more difficult than we thought it was going to be. And then having to do chemo and then, oh, also my leg, my nerve was pinched in my leg and my one leg was paralyzed for, you know, a good month. And it didn't get back to really 100% for about six.

So it was a lot. Okay. So I have this acceptance that even though I was good for most of the visit, when I first got there, I'm like, oh, I'm in good shape, everything's great. I'm gonna get another good result, I can share with my family, we're all gonna be happy. And all of a sudden my heart starts to pound fast.

I'm like, damn, I thought I was okay. But the acceptance and giving myself grace is what I would share with Hank is that you just say, yeah, you know what, I just came from my colleges and yes, mycologist says I don't have cancer. You're going to be okay. That sounds great. But all those difficult memories and I don't know Hank's whole story, but whatever he went through with cancer had to be scary, right?

It is scary. There's no certainty like, yes, you will be okay, it will never come back. Our doctors might say, I don't believe so. But now that we've been through it, we know that there is uncertainty. So even though we feel like we're doing okay, you know, our body's still going to remind us like, you went through a difficult time.

That was scary. And, and that's I think, where that free flowing anxiety comes when we're going through or go through experiences where we're reminded like, this was in my life. And it was a difficult time. And also, you know, he talked about too, you know, concerns he has about the world, concerns he has about, you know, mentioned like medical research going forward. And so many changes, at least here in the United States with our government, that it's like, you know, we want people to be researching and learning more stuff so that in 10 or 20 years, you know, that, you know, God forbid any of us, you know, get cancer.

Anything coming back, you know, the treatment's going to be even better, right? So he was sharing how there's just levels of concern about the world, things that are going on, things that are important to him, which I completely understand. And you know, the fact that he went through this very difficult medical situation. So with cbt, we want to use our tools and again, one of them is acceptance. So, you know, in the workbook that I mostly use, the Mind Over Mood, there is a chapter that talks about acceptance.

Writing acceptance is when you have a problem you can't fix, right? So that would mean like, yeah, I had cancer, I can't change that. And there's times things are going to upset me, so I'm just going to accept it instead of like, damn it, why am I feeling anxious? Because I went through a really difficult thing, right? These are my thoughts I'm telling myself instead of like, I shouldn't feel this way, right?

Remember, the root word of should is scold. I'm not going to scold myself for my body reacting to an anxious environment. Cuz it was a big deal. What I went through was a big deal. What Hank went through, big deal.

What any of you that are listening have gone through. When you've gone through major medical issues, right? And you're always hoping like you're going to be okay and even though you're going to take control and do whatever you can to be well and again live the life that you want to going forward, right. It doesn't completely eliminate it. Right.

I can still find times where I just start crying just thinking about what I went through. And even though I had phenomenal support, my husband was a gem and my kids and my family and friends and it was just, I couldn't ask for more support. But I'm the one that went through it. That's still different than anybody else and it's okay. And I just let myself cry and I say, you know, that was just a really difficult time in my life that I never thought I would go through.

So if my body's just going to remind me at times, right? So I would Say to Hank, you know, you're home, and they are laying in bed and going, like, why am I feeling anxious? I just got good news today. You've been reminded. Your Makeda was like, reminder, reminder.

This was a difficult time, and there's all this other uncertainty again with our world right now. A lot of things that are scary and frustrating, a lot of people feel helpless, and that. That's all underlying there. Remember, you know, I share with you guys a lot that, you know, you have 80 to 90,000 thoughts a day. So we don't even know what we're thinking most of the time, right?

So those underlying thoughts are still affecting us, though, where we're still reacting, Our body's still reacting, right? I can't fall asleep. I didn't think I was worried about anything, but maybe I am. Sometimes I tell people, like, I point to the back of my head and say, sometimes your concerns are all the way back there. They're not at the front of your mind.

You got to go back and kind of trace them and go, is there anything that I'm concerned about with the world, with my work environment, with my personal relationships? Is there a conversation that didn't go well? Is there a conversation I needed address? Is there something I have to go to? I really don't want to go to?

I'm concerned this, this, or that will happen. How am I going to react to it? Like, it can be a lot, right? 80, 90,000 thoughts. Too many thoughts.

We all have too many thoughts. We're always thinking something. Our brain never shuts down, right? So it's again, having that grace and that acceptance that I always have stuff going on, and I can always find something to worry about, right? So I just need to be mindful of what I'm thinking.

And then I also have to practice, like, my relaxation techniques, right? So again, when I was in the office, my heart's beating fast. I'm like, okay, Julie, let's just do some deep breathing, some doing some grounding. You know, my hands were on my knees, my feet were on the ground. You know, I was mindful of the chair I was in.

I reminded myself that my blood test came back great. All my checks have been great. You know, I trust my doctor. And it's okay that my body's a little nervous because my body went through a lot, and I'm just gonna give it that self compassion, right? And then my heart calmed down and it went away.

And that was my. That's where it showed itself. So I know Hank was sharing that his came up later at nighttime because we might be like, okay, I got a good appointment. My doctor said everything was okay. And he talks about, you know, what his doctor shared with him in the video, but.

And then he went home and he thought, okay, I'm fine. But, you know, it was probably still lingering, and it was just to take a moment that, you know what? I am worried and I probably do know too much, and I Google and I know all these other cancers and what could possibly come from my cancer and yada yada and all these things. You know, I just need to take a moment to be present, right? Maybe use my gratitude list that can calm us down.

Use whatever relaxation tools help you. Breathing, progressive muscle relaxation, maybe doing some imagery sometimes, you know, doing some stretching can help, you know, whatever it is that helps you relax, you know, to take a minute and like, honor yourself, honor your body. That again, you went through a lot and it was a difficult time. And like, of course I have some anxiety. Like, that's normal, right?

All of our emotions are important, and anxiety is one that brings attention. Like, there's something I'm not addressing. So my body's like saying, hello. It's waving to you. Hello, hello.

You need to address this. You know, just don't go through life and run to the next thing. You got to take a minute, you got to be present and say, okay, here I am feeling a little nervous. I'm grateful that I'm alive. I'm grateful that I'm healthy.

I'm grateful that I trust my doctor. I'm grateful that I made changes in my life and that I live my life differently now, knowing that things can happen unexpectedly. Right? Not in a way of being in fear, but of being more mindful and being more purposeful with saying yes to more things in my life and having more authentic relationships. So these are things that I've changed in my life after going through my cancer.

It's not all of who I am, but it's a part of my life now. It's a part of who my psyche and how I look at the world. Right? And that it's okay that I still cry about it sometimes, and it's still okay that I get a little nervous when I have to go do my follow up. You know, it's all.

It's all okay, and I can just accept that so it doesn't keep feeding my anxiety. When, you know, Hank was sharing, like, why do I feel this? Right? And he was, like, frustrated, right? Understandably.

And it's like, you wanted to figure out why am I anxious? And I think sometimes, you know, we want an answer instead of just accepting that maybe it's lots of things, right? Maybe it was connected to having that appointment. Maybe it was connected to world affairs that are concerning him. Whatever it might be, just saying it's okay.

I'm gonna take care of myself right now. I'm gonna relax myself. I'm gonna, you know, use my CBT tools. I'm going to create some balanced thinking and just understand with that acceptance and then you will get past it and you will be okay and you'll get into your next day and most likely that anxiety won't be there. But if it is, you need to take a minute and just say, what is this about?

Because I think we're all going to experience some free floating anxiety at times in our lives and we just need to acknowledge it and it's okay to be frustrated with it. Now sometimes when he was, you know, he was joking around and making like, you know, can I just starve my anxiety away? I think is one of the things he said in the video that sometimes I do tell clients, you know, when they're just dealing with anxiety for long periods of time, like sometimes to get pissed off at it versus just like, oh no, no, I'm, you know, I'm anxious and getting fearful. It's just like, oh my God, here it is again. I don't want to deal with this.

I know what it is. I'm okay. There's nothing to be worried about. What's my next thing that I need to do that I want to focus on? Right, right.

And just getting pissed off sometimes. I have not found this in a book. Anybody? Okay. But sometimes I, I do recommend my clients, like instead of just going into fear, you know, you can use your anger in a positive way and just be like, I'm not going down this path.

I'm not letting this control me. What can I control instead in this situation? So I can feel calmer, I can feel in control, I can feel more present. I can focus on what I do have control over versus what I don't have control over. You know, our body is a real physical being, right.

That's always working 24 7. It's quite a miracle when you think about it. And again, we always are going to be having, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of emotions that change throughout the day. And anxiety usually gets our attention because if we're not paying attention, our body is going to tell us, right? So mine was, you know, my Heart beating fast.

I don't recall if he was real, if Hank was real specific on what his free flown anxiety was, but he was uncomfortable and laying in bed and he was frustrated with it. So I thought, I just want to answer his question since he asked if a CBT therapist could do that and I, and I could relate. And so I hope he finds this helpful. I hope you find this helpful.

You know, it's a real issue some, just to give you a little more knowledge about this too, when you're like, oh, what's free flowing anxiety? Sometimes it's also connected to generalized anxiety disorder, which a lot of people have that it's not just one like a specific phobia of say flying or elevators, whatever, but people just have this, you know, generalized anxiety that goes on throughout their day and different things may trigger it. So if you want to, if you're looking this up going, oh, I haven't heard of free flowing anxiety, they tend to, you know, put it in the same pool with the generalized anxiety disorder, which is super common. And of course CBT is definitely the most recommended therapy for that and learning the tools.

So I hope you find this helpful. Again, I wanted to jump on and do this podcast after hearing his YouTube, you know, sharing his experience. So again, his name is Hank Green. His YouTube channel is vlog Brothers. Vlog Brothers.

Just wanted to share that. And again, if you have any questions about this or if I didn't cover something you thought that would be helpful, you know, you can always reach out. You know how you can find me. I always love to hear from you guys.

My website is mycognitivebehavioraltherapy.com.

You can always find me on Instagram under My CBT podcast and Dr. Julie Osborn on Facebook. Please keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns, your questions. Again, I love hearing from you and I always respond back. Please hit the subscribe button and make sure you never miss an episode.

And again, if you go on my store page, which is under MyCBT.store, you can find my fun stuff with my mantra. But you can also find the Mind Over Mood book that I mentioned earlier so you can read more about the tools and learn about acceptance as well.

And as always, make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.