Episode #124

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) & CBT

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is one more and more people are encountering in their daily lives, whether it’s someone you work with, a friend or family member, or someone you’re in or were in a relationship with.

How can you identify a narcissistic personality?

How can you protect yourself?

How can you heal?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, as I share with you CBT tools to help you handle a narcissistic personality.

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Full Episode Transcript

Hi, this is Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

Thanks for being here with me. I hope everybody's doing well. As always, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing and giving me feedback so we can keep growing our community and helping each other out.

So today, my podcast is on the Narcistic Personality and CBT. I decided to do this because recently I've had a lot of clients and friends and family members talk to me about people they've had in their lives that have been narcissists and asking how to handle it and what to look for and understanding it. So I'm going to talk about different aspects about what is narcissistic personality, science to look for, what to do if you're in a relationship with someone, how heal from it. It's a big deal, and it's more common than we like to think, but it's definitely one of those personalize that's out there and shows itself very often. Individuals with narcissistic traits often exhibit a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, they lack empathy, and they have a need for excessive admiration.

They can also struggle with interpersonal relationships and have difficulty regulating their own emotions. So when addressing a narcissistic personality rates through therapy, it can really be challenging because individuals with what we call NPD may be resistant to acknowledging their own shortcomings or seeking help. That's the whole issue with being a Narcissist, right? But if they're willing to engage in some therapy. Cbt can really be valuable, offering tools, addressing specific aspects of their behavior and their thought patterns. I have just a small list of things that can apply if someone comes in for help, and then we'll move on to being in a relationship with someone and what to look out for. So obviously, first and foremost with CBT is you want to identify and challenge the distorted thoughts. And since CBT, that's our basis there, that individuals with narciss traits or the personality disorder. So when I say traits, we don't want to split hairs here. Some people do have some traits, some people are fully having narciss personality disorder, but it all applies the same. So if you're wondering what that difference is, I want to just clarify it. But They may hold distorted beliefs about their own importance or entitlements.

Therapy can help you identify and challenge your thoughts if you're struggling with being a Narcissist and foster with more realistic and balanced thinking. You can help develop empathy because that's something that people with NPD lack. And CBT can help encourage the development of empathy by helping Narcissists explore and understand the perspectives and feelings of others. So this might involve of perspective, taking exercises or exploring the impact of their own behavior on others. Narcissists do not have that insight. Also, exploring their own core beliefs. Cbt examines core beliefs. It's really at the core of where all of our assumptions and our hot thoughts come from and really influence behavior. So individuals with narcissistic personality, we might need to explore their beliefs related to their own self-worth, their superiority, and the need for this constant admiration. Challenging and modifying your core beliefs can be a key component of therapy because narcissism is, many There's many parts of it, but it also is a behavior, right? Having that belief that you're more important, that's a superiority, I was saying, that entitlement. So whenever we have a behavior, it's coming from possibly a negative core belief, and that with narcissism, it's extremely exaggerated.

If I feel that I am worthless or not good enough, then being a narcist, I come across, again, entitled and superior, and I'm not even going to care for anyone because it's all about me. So addressing core beliefs can be a really good place to go to as well in therapy. And then using some behavioral interventions, aimed at modifying the negative behaviors. So for someone with narcissism, this could involve developing more constructive and adaptive ways of interacting with others. So how to listen, how to communicate, how to be mindful when the narcissist brings it back to themselves. Because I always say narcissists try to one up you. Be like, Oh, yeah, I've done this before. Oh, I've done it, and I did it even bigger, right? Or I did it even better. I mean, it's like that's where the conversation starts because you don't have this mutual conversation and appreciation with each other when you're dealing with the narcissist because they always make it all about Then coping skills and emotional regulation, which is managing your emotions and regulating them. If somebody has narcissism, they may struggle with that. Being with a CBT therapist I can help teach coping skills and strategies to manage your emotions more effectively.

But I want to say the big, big thing with narcissism and coming for Narcissim personality disorder, sorry, is the success in treatment definitely depends on the client's willingness to engage in treatment and make changes. I always remember a client that came to me that said, Oh, yeah, I'm a narcist. I want help. I'm like, Okay, great. I thought, Wow, he's acknowledging it. He's owning it. He has a name for it. That's half the battle. Getting someone to even see their narcist is a very difficult process in itself. But I can't remember specifics, but I said something in one session. He got so pissed. He stood up, he screamed something at and walked out the door. That was the end of our treatment. So although I give him some credit because he came in wanting to, but it was really deep, and he probably needed more intensive type of therapy where it wasn't once a week, and somewhere where they really specialize in treating personality disorders. But I always remembered that. I thought, Wow, this is really good. But he had good intentions. I'll give him that much credit. But when it really came to addressing the narcissistic traits, he wasn't able to go there.

It was probably just too scary and too vulnerable and overwhelming. And a lot of narcissists are like, without those traits about themselves, they don't even know who they are or how to be and are very fearful in reality. So that was one of my memories that I have dealing with a client with narcissism that wasn't willing to go there. So again, that's why the success is all on the person. Personality disorders in general, you guys, are tough to treat. It's part of your personality. You're not stuck with it, but it is so ingrained. It's not something you give medication for. It is all about therapy, and it's going to be long-term therapy and somebody really, really wanting to change and be different. It's totally possible. I'm not saying that it isn't, but it takes a lot for somebody to own that and to make those changes. So I really admire and see the courage it takes to get there. But that is up to the client. My job is not to convince any of you guys how to be or how to change, that I can't want this for you more than you want it for yourself.

So someone needs to come and really be willing. And again, it's not your job to try to change a narcestist either and get them to see it. That's not your job. Your job is to take care of yourself. If you're in a relationship like that, that you don't think you can get out of, maybe it's in a If you're young and you're being raised by a narcist, you're stuck on a level with being with your caretaker. Over time, you can leave when you're an adult and develop coping skills and how you're going to manage that relationship. But if you're just in a relationship, which I'm going to talk about in a few minutes, what to look for, how to leave it, how to take care of yourself. I'm talking as a therapist and what I can do if someone comes to me for help, but it's not your job to help a Narcist in your life. So I just want to really make that clear because people get caught up in that. Because you might like some things about the person, but the Narcism is really just getting in the way. So now let's talk about what to do if you're in a relationship with a Narcist.

So as I was just saying, it can be very challenging and emotionally draining. Because of the Narcist's lack of insight, they're going to resist help, most likely. So I'm just going to give you some general strategies. If you find yourself in a relationship with a Narcissist. But these are just general. Every situation is really unique. So the first thing you need to do is set boundaries. You need to establish clear and healthy boundaries to protect yourself emotionally and physically sometimes. Please clearly communicate your needs and expectations and be prepared that you're going to have to enforce consequences if those boundaries are violated. It needs to be very black and white, which I normally say is not the way to be, but in These relationships, I would say so. They need to be very clear and be very healthy. I do have a podcast on Boundaries if you want to listen to that as well, how to set healthy boundaries and follow through. So that's number one. Number two, what you're doing with me is educating yourself. You want to learn more about what is narciss personality, what are the traits, the behaviors, understanding the characteristics of narcissism can help you be more informed about decisions about how to cope with and respond to specific situations.

I think it's fair to say that we've all had a narcist in our lives. I'm hoping from this podcast, you might be able to identify that. A lot of times, we don't understand what does that even mean. It's a term that's thrown out there a lot, where we're not really sure. What does that mean? Learning about it and then being... So you can be informed. That helps you make decisions, set those healthy boundaries. How am I going to deal with this situation if I have a narcist in my life that I'm going choose to still have in my life, or I feel like I can't get out of my life, or whatever particular situation that is, and how to go forward. Number three would be to seek support. You really want to reach out to friends and family, a therapist, of course, if that's something that you feel would be helpful. Looking to all of these people for support. Narcistic relationships can be really isolating, and having a support system is really crucial maintain your well-being and perspective. You also want to practice good self-care, which I always encourage in any situation on a daily basis, but you want to take care of your physical and emotional well-being.

You want to engage in activities that bring you joy and relaxation and prioritize self-care to help you cope with the challenges in the relationship. You also want to establish realistic expectations. You need to understand that you might not be able to change the narcissist and Again, it's not your job to do that anyways, and you may not be able to make them see things from your perspective. But setting the realistic expectations for the relationship can help you manage disappointment and frustration. As I said before, when is it that you're... I hate to use the word stuck, but if you're young and you're being raised by a narcist, if you end up having a child that's a Narcist and you want to continue that relationship, relatives, work environments. There's just all different situations where you feel like, Okay, this person is going to be in my life, and I need to figure out how to deal with that. As always, you want to really consider professional help. Individual or couples therapy can be beneficial, even if the narciss partner is initially resistant, a really skilled therapist, CBT, of course, but also a really skilled marital therapist, that's a whole other specialty, can help you navigate the challenges of the relationship and help you set those boundaries and explore healthier communication patterns.

Anything, any little thing you do different that can make the relationship better is helpful. If it's important to you, I encourage you to try. It's just that, which I'll talk about throughout this podcast, you need to maybe know when you need to end a relationship or again, have stronger boundaries. You also, which might sound interesting, is you want to protect your finances. Now, Narcistists, a lot of times, can have financial irresponsability or definitely financial manipulation with people they're in relationships with. So you want to take steps to protect your financial well-being and be cautious about joint financial decisions if you're in a relationship with somebody. And not just joint, but lending money to the Narcist in your life. You also want to document behaviors. Documentation is always important when you're in a relationship where you're feeling abused abused, manipulated. You want to keep a record of significant behaviors or incidences. This can be useful if you decide to seek legal or professional assistance in the future. I've learned for many that if you ever have to go to court or have any legal issues that you need to address, documenting is so important because they might say, When did it happen?

Well, sometime last year. What was said? Well, I can't remember everything, but I felt nervous. That's not enough. Say you need a restraining order something. You need dates, you need specific comments, situations, if you called the police, whatever you needed to do. Documenting is important, just like bullet points. So just have a journal and just write down things that happen. That's really helpful. You also want to develop an exit plan. If you're in a relationship within our system becomes toxic or abusive, you may have to consider leaving. You want to develop a safety plan and consider seeking assistance from maybe domestic violence or abuse support services, having a therapist and being open and honest with them, letting family know what's going on in case you need to go to them for support or to stay with them if you're living with the narcist. You also want to focus on yourself. You want to shift your focus towards you and work on your own personal growth. I understand that being in a relationship with narciss is, they're going to suck the energy out of you and it's all going to be about them. You're going to always be, How can I change?

How Where should I be? I don't want them to react to me negatively. Building your own self-esteem and resilience can be really empowering, whether you choose a student relationship or eventually decide to leave. Focusing on you is important. Do not get lost in the relationship. I want to say every situation is unique, and these suggestions that I'm sharing with you will not apply to every situation. As I was just talking about, your exit plan, safety is first. If you ever feel unsafe or are in an abuse relationship, please reach out for help. There's people that can help you. You're not stuck. You can get out, but you need to have a plan. You need to be open and honest with others, so so they can assist you. So that's really important. I'm always here for you guys. People reach out to me all the time. You can reach me through my email, my website, all of those things. If you ever need some direction on where to get help, please reach out. I'm here for you. People in your community. It's really important. Don't keep telling yourself it's going to get better or next time, or it's not going to get worse because it probably is.

If someone's willing to abuse you and you stay, understandably, maybe out of fear, the message is that I'm going to stay and I will put up, and the abuse will only escalate and get worse, and I don't want you to wait till it's too late. Let's also talk about things to look out for regarding narcissists. I'm already We talked about once you're in it, but what are some things that can be red flags so we can avoid that? It obviously can be really challenging with everything I've shared already to first see someone, not see, but first, I guess, see the red flags of someone that's a narcissist. It's not always just apparent right away. They often represent themselves in a very charming, charismatic way initially. But over time, these patterns I'm talking about of their behavior become more apparent. The first thing you can identify is an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Narcissists have an inflated view of their own importance, their achievements, their abilities. They exaggerate their talents and accomplishments. This is where I was saying before, if you're talking with someone and you share something you did, and as I say, they want up you and say, Oh, yeah, I've done that, or I climbed this mountain.

Well, I I'm on a bigger mountain, or this, or whatever, and you're always feeling like, God, they're always one up me. That's a sign of that exaggerated self of self-importance. They also have a preoccupation of fantasies of their unlimited success, power, or even beauty. And the fantasies they have do not align with reality. So if you're like, Well, that seems a little out of the box or exaggerated, that would be another sign to look at. They also have a belief in their uniqueness and their special status. I've heard before that Quo where it says, Your uniqueness will kill you. We're not all the same, but you're not completely unique like no one else in the world. Narcissists tend to believe they are and think they're really special. They also expect special treatment because they think they're unique and special. They may insist on only associating with high status individuals or institutions or even brag about, Oh, I know this person. I run around with this person. This person reached out to me. It might not even be true, but they may talk like that and you'd be like, Oh, that's really interesting. But listen to yourself.

It sounds a little unrealistic or they can't really back it up. These are all red flags I'm talking about to look for. Because they think they're so special, they also require excessive admiration. They crave that constant admiration, and they'll seek it from others. So they may fish you for compliments, they may boast about their achievements, They may expect others to acknowledge their superiority. Oh, you're so wonderful. You're so wonderful. If you're someone that over compliments people, you want to be careful because a narcist will be attracted to you. They're just so special. That's what just keeps them going because at that core, they just can't deal with. They probably really don't believe that, but it's just so out of their reality, they can't even see it. They also lack empathy. One of the hallmarks of a narcist is their lack of empathy. They may have difficulty understanding or caring about others and the needs of others. Instead of having empathy for someone who's struggling, they'll see them as a failure or loser. They don't want to be associated with them. Although shoulda, woulda, couldas, there's just no empathy. It's just a very ugly trait, and they really lack that.

They also may be envious of others or believe others are envious of them. Narcist can be envious of others and believe that others are envious of them because of how they see themselves in the world. So they may be really competitive, and they also may have a desire to undermine other's success. If you're with someone that's talking about being jealous of others, envious of them, and how can they maybe kick them out of their job, take their job away, make others see them, something bad or negative they think they did, that doesn't feel good, right? I mean, if I had someone talk, I'd be like, What do you want to do to that person for. That's just really unhealthy sick behaviors. That's something to really be mindful of, too. They can really be exploitive, too. They may exploit others to achieve their own goals so they could be taking advantage of others, meaning you, in relationships, both personally and professionally. If you happen to be connected to someone maybe famous or with lots of money, and they may use you to get to those other people or even professionally. So they're going to use who they need to use to get what they want.

They can be really arrogant and have a howdy attitude. They can be with that sense of superiority that arrogance is going to come across. They can be condescending and dismissive of others' opinions and contributions. Like, Oh, yeah, he helped me, but I was the one that really finished it off, or I really closed the sale. That type of thing. Instead of giving others credit as a team, they need to feel like they're the most important. Obviously, they're going to have a lot of difficulty maintaining healthy relationships. They're going to struggle, especially to maintain long-term healthy relationships due to their self-centered behavior, their lack of empathy, and difficulties with having any compromise. If you meet someone, you always want to... When you're dating, I think it's really important to ask somebody their history with relationships, depending on their age, how long they've been in relationships. But have you been in long term relationships? Has someone's been divorced? I always tell my clients, find out why did they get divorced? What happened there? How do they talk about their ex-partners? Are they just blamers? Narcist will definitely blame the other person for the failure of the relationship and thinking it had nothing to do with them.

Those are some needs to listen for. They also have really fragile self-esteem. So paradoxically, narcissists may have a fragile self-esteem that's easily threatened. That's what I was saying, that they're really not strong way, way, way down at the core. They may act strongly to perceive criticism or rejection. And that's where the emotional or physical abuse can come out, that they're going to react back to you because they can't handle that. There's something in psychology called the Narcistic Wound, which they're talking about what happened to that person where they developed this. People aren't born with personality disorders. It's developed by experiences in their life. So what was that wound? And part of that wound is having a very fragile self-esteem and having that threatened is something that just cannot tolerate. And obviously, with everything I've said, they're very manipulative, right? They can engage in manipulative tactics to control or influence you and others. It could be making you feel excessively guilty, gaslighting you, and all other forms of emotional manipulation. Again, I have a lot of podcasts, you guys. I have one on gaslighting, being in an emotionally manipulative relationship. To get more in-depth and detail about this, you can listen to those as well.

But I want to say it's important to note that having some of these traits doesn't necessarily mean someone's a narcissist. You really want to understand fully the person. Again, a lot of narcissists don't come for therapeutic help, so they're not going to get diagnosed. But traits can exist on a A lot of people can exhibit these behaviors without meeting the criteria of being a Narcist or having Narcissistic Personal Disorder. But if you're dealing with someone you suspect has Narcistic traits and it's impacting your well-being. Seeking support from friends and family or a mental health professional can be really beneficial. So it's not about, Oh, have they been diagnosed? Do I need someone to die? You don't need anybody to diagnose them. You just need to know, This isn't good for me. I don't like this relationship. Relationship. It doesn't feel good. I don't feel safe. I'm not growing. This person doesn't bring out the best from me. I can't trust them. That's all that matters. So don't get caught up with like, Oh, am I correct? Are they narcissists? If you're not feeling good and you can see this is what's going on and you can identify it and then be, again, more educated and saying, Yeah, I think I'm going to exit this relationship.

That's all you need to do. That's all you need to know. So now let's talk one last aspect of my podcast today is how to heal from a narcissistic relationship. So first, I want to give you my love, my support. Takes a lot of courage to leave a narcissist. It is not easy. There's a good chance you've been in long enough where you're even confused about understanding your reality based on all the manipulation that's gone on. So give yourself some grace. Don't get focused on should it, would it, could it, about leaving sooner, should have seen this. All that matters is if you see it now and you want to leave or you have left, how do I heal myself now? So the first thing you want to do is just acknowledging the reality, accepting that the relationship was unhealthy and acknowledging the reality of the Narcist. This can be really crucial first step in healing. This is what happened. It's so painful to think that because you love this person and you probably saw some really good potential, but I have to look at the reality of it to keep me grounded so I can move forward and stay out of the relationship and heal.

You want to establish no contact or limited contact. If possible, consider implementing no contact with the Narcist. If you have to, just very limited, this can help you create emotional distance and reduce the likelihood of further manipulation. So again, first no contact is my first choice. Limited contact, I don't know, maybe if you're having to divorce the person, really have lawyers that can talk to each other, so you're not going to give them a chance to be any more manipulative than they've already been. Definitely, definitely seeking support. Again, if I mentioned in other parts of this podcast, you want to reach out to friends, family, a therapist. Share your experience and feelings with those you really trust. A therapist with really good experience in trauma and narciss abuse can offer valuable guidance, and there are people out there that really specialize in that. Definitely educating yourself. To learn more about the narcissic personality traits and abuse dynamics. Understanding what you experience can empower you to heal and establish healthy relationships in the future so that you don't get caught up again with another narciss. You definitely want to practice self-care, as I said before. I can't say this enough.

Now it's time to prioritize your self-care to promote physical and emotional well-being. So again, exercising, just to reiterate, relaxation techniques, Activities that bring you joy is good self-care. I'm going to repeat setting boundaries because that's just so important. They need to be clear, they need to be healthy, they need to protect you from further emotional harm. You want to communicate and enforce them in a very assertive way with I statements. Part of being assertive is the broken record. You repeat the boundary over and over again, exactly how you set it. As soon as you try to explain your boundary, you've lost You've lost the argument right there. You don't have to repeat them all over and over. You just set them and you be clear. Boundaries now with social media, especially not having contact, is blocking people on your social media, your email, whatever you need to do to keep that narcissus from affecting you anymore. Something else that can be really healing is journaling. So consider keeping a journal to process all of your thoughts and your emotions. Journaling, doing a thaw record so you can start challenging your thoughts when you're having your negative emotions and writing about your experience can be a really cathartic way to express your feelings and gain insight into your own healing journey.

The research shows with journaling, it can really be beneficial. I think that when you get your thoughts on paper, it's a lot easier to let them go instead of just ruminating and having them over and over and over in your mind. You can put it on paper and be able to move on a little easier. I'd really have you consider therapy, if you're not already in it, to work through the emotional impact of the narcissist and how it's affected you. As always, as therapists, we can provide support, we can validate what you went through, we can educate you, we can help teach you coping strategies, really tailored to your specific situation. Because our thoughts are just so a part of who we are, remember, we got 80 or 90,000 a day, that they really affect how we feel, which also affects our behaviors and our physical reactions. Then, of course, our environment. Your environment has been in being in this unhealthy relationship. Getting really good therapy can be a game changer. You also want to join support groups that you can find in your community and connect with others who have experienced narcissistic abuse. There's online support groups, there's local support groups that can provide a sense of community understanding.

There's many different ones out there. If that's something you're open to, I would really research that as well. Again, you want to focus on your own self-discovery. Use this time to rediscover yourself and your interests. Who am I? Because again, most likely you might have got lost in the relationship. You want to reconnect with activities and hobbies that bring you joy and a sense of fulfillment. Again, just start to love yourself again. You might have to even work on forgiving yourself. In the Mind Over Mood book I use in Chapter 15, there's a whole section on forgiveness, and there's a letter to forgive your others, but there's also one to forgive yourself. Because I can understand that getting out of relationship like this It's easy to do that self-blame, but it is what it is. If forgiving yourself will allow yourself to move on, that's really important. Powerful tool. Powerful. It's been powerful in my life, and I've seen it be very powerful for my clients. Again, I also have a podcast on forgiveness and how to get there. It can be really, really important. The last thing I just want to say is you really want to set realistic expectations for your healing and understand It's a process, and it might take some time.

But be patient with yourself, loving yourself. Again, taking care. Sometimes part of the self-care is you might be working on doing thought records, working on the workbook, doing therapy. Also, self-care is getting good sleep. Sometimes taking a break from working on your tools and working on the workbook. I tell clients, Hey, put it aside. Go take a walk. Go watch a fun show. Again, just take some rest. It's a big spectrum when it comes to self-care. It doesn't mean working, working, working 24/7, but it's also helping yourself rejuvenate. Sleep helps us rejuvenate, helps our brain heal, helps us focus better, helps us have better energy. So all of those things are important. And really being kind to yourself is a daily practice that's really important, especially since You've gone through so much. And again, it's a journey. I always say progress, not perfection. Three steps forward, sometimes one step back. We're human beings. It's not that we learn something and then we just go all out and we're able to change it. But we also want to look at maybe sometimes what's the silver lining? What am I getting from this journey I'm on? What have I learned?

How can I be there for others? How can I pay it forward once I heal from this? And understand how a narcissist in my life affected me? What did I need to do to heal? What did I need to move on from that relationship? Your CBT tools will always be there for the rest of your life. It's a lifestyle, I say. It's not It's just coming in and getting well, but it's learning tools that I can use for the rest of my life. If this is a situation that you're in, again, safety first. I hope you've learned something today. I hope it made you think. I hope maybe it motivated you to make some changes. As always, we may know someone that can use the information I share today, so please pass it on. The more we can reach others and help and teach the CBT tools, the better world will be in as far as I'm concerned.

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