Episode #110
CBT for Dog Groomers
ft. Carla Keen
The interviewer becomes the interviewee!
In this special episode, I am interviewed by Carla Keen, a charming and entrepreneurial dog groomer from the UK.
Carla has seen how shame, guilt, perfectionism, and anxiety about running your own business can affect mental health. She’s on a mission to help dog groomers to enjoy their work and find a good work-life balance!
What is the link between shame and perfectionism?
Is there a difference between guilt and shame?
How does social media affect things?
How can you evaluate your own work with grace and balance?
Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, and Carla Keen as we explore the answers to these questions and more!
Click to listen now!
Reference Guides:
Full Episode Transcript
Carla
Hello and welcome to Wellbeing for Dog Groomers, the podcast. Today we are on episode 10. We've made it to the double figures and to celebrate, I'm really excited to say that we're going to be talking to Dr. Julie Osborne. I've listened to my CBT podcast for around six months now and I find Dr. Julie's talk so fascinating. So I was absolutely thrilled when she accepted my invitation to talk with us. I was really nervous in the hours running up to the interview, but she was such a pleasure to talk to. She made me feel really calm and I could have spoken to her for hours. Today, we are talking about shame, guilt, perfectionism, what CBT is, and how it can help. So let's get straight to it. I really hope you enjoy the interview and take lots of her wisdom on board. Here we go! Hi, Dr. Julie, and welcome to Well-Being for Dog Groomers: The Podcast. How are you today?
Dr Julie
I'm doing great, thank you.
Carla
Brilliant. So to get us started, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and the CBT work that you do?
Dr Julie
Sure. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and I have my doctorate in psychology. I specialize in Cognate Behavioral Therapy. I'm located in California and I've been doing Cognate Behavioral therapy since 1997. I was working at a school here at the University of California at Irvine and I was fortunate enough to meet Dr. Dennis Greenberg, who's the co author of my workbook that I use, or his workbook, I should say, Mind Over Mood. I got training with him to do a CBT group at the university, and I had to teach the psychiatry residents. They would sit in with me. That's how it just fell into my lap, and I've been very blessed ever since then. Now I have private practice full-time, and I've been doing that since 2000.
Carla
Wow. Okay. And I heard on your podcast you interviewed Dr. Greenberg.
Dr Julie
Yes, that was my 100th episode, and that was an incredible... Just for me, it was a full circle moment for me to interview him all those years later.
Carla
Yeah, it was a really good episode.
Dr Julie
Thank you. Before we.
Carla
Start asking you lots of questions, could you clear up some of the terminology? Could you explain what a hot thought is and a core belief? Because I've heard these mentioned in various podcasts, and it wasn't until you explained in one of your episodes that I actually really understood what they meant.
Dr Julie
Okay, of course. Yeah, those are great questions. A hot thought is a thought that's not 100 % true. So what I teach my clients is we have two types of thoughts. Our thoughts are either facts, they're 100 % true, or their half thoughts. And the half thoughts are the thoughts that really fuel the negative moods that people are struggling with. And then once we can figure out what a hot thought is, those are the thoughts that we want to challenge to have more balanced thinking, and that helps decrease the negative moods like depression, anxiety, and everything that people are struggling with. Then a core belief is something you believe at your core. We have positive core beliefs and we have negative core beliefs. Obviously, the positive ones we want to leave alone, but the negative ones, they could be, I'm unlovable, I'm bound to be abandoned, I'm incompetent, I'm a failure. Most people are not aware of their core beliefs because they're subconscious, but that their everyday is very affected by your core belief. Because I explain to people that your hot thoughts, all of your thoughts that you have stemmed from your core belief.
Dr Julie
Once you identify that core belief and you can change it, all that other stuff just goes away. But it's a process to get there, and it takes a little longer to change than just your everyday thoughts because some people have had their core beliefs for 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
Carla
Yeah, they can be really ingrained.
Dr Julie
Very ingrained, yes. And your core beliefs can also be about yourself, about others or the world.
Carla
Sure. I've listened to your podcast and I find your talks really interesting. One of the episodes that really made me think was the one based around shame. Could you explain a bit about how secrets and shame can affect someone as the years go on?
Dr Julie
Yes. Let's first define shame. Shame is a mood. Shame is that there's something wrong with me. That goes back to the core beliefs that I'm not good enough, I'm incompetent, I'm going to fail. Shame can be created, something you put on yourself or something... I always say it's the lie someone told you about you. So if someone says to you that you're not good enough or you're never going to succeed, it's a lie that they told about you, but you take that out, like, something's wrong with me. Well, that's one mood interesting that a lot of people don't identify. There's certain moods people identify all the time. Shame is not one of them. So we really want to walk through that with clients to get to all of the moods and identify if you're feeling ashamed and how that's affecting you. So how can affect you throughout your life is your self worth, your self esteem, maybe not pursuing your dreams because you don't think that you're good enough and you can get there. Or all the negative information society gives us about going after your dreams. So it can affect you on many levels and you may not even know that it's playing a part.
Carla
It can be quite overwhelming as well. I think shame is quite a hard one to shake off, I think, probably because, like you say, you don't always realize that that's the problem. I suppose working with someone like yourself is identifying where the shame has come from and how to work on looking at yourself a bit more positively. Shame is a big one, isn't it?
Dr Julie
It's a big one, yeah. If you think about the whole cognitive therapy theory is that your thoughts create your moods. If you're feeling ashamed, it's not just like, Oh, feel better, or Do something different. I got to find out what are you thinking about yourself that even makes you feel ashamed.
Carla
Can you explain the difference between shame and guilt? And how are they both damaging on their own? And also, is it possible to have shame without guilt or guilt without shame?
Dr Julie
Yes. So first, I'll tell you what, guilt. Guilt is that you've done something wrong versus the shame is there something wrong with me? So yes, you can definitely have one without the other. I think many people identify having guilt, but it's not always actually the actual mood because it's just some things we just have it say a lot. Oh, I feel guilty. I feel guilty. So sometimes I'll ask my client, Well, what is it that you think you did wrong? And sometimes they can't even come up with, Oh, I didn't actually do anything wrong. But people just are using that word a lot. So you want to ask yourself, Did I do something wrong? And if I did, then make decisions on how to handle that. But that's the first place to start with guilt versus, again, the shame. Yeah, is there something wrong with me? So yeah, you can have them at the same time, but you can have guilt all by itself. But most of us have lots of moods, Carla. We don't just have one mood. People get stuck on moods. Oh, I'm depressed, I'm anxious. Not that they're not. But I have a whole mood list I give my clients because there's hundreds of moods and they're like, Oh, yeah, I feel insecure, I feel overwhelmed, I feel despair. When you can really identify more of your moods, you can figure out your thoughts and then you can start making some change.
Carla
That makes a lot of sense. With the guilt and the shame, it seems more like guilt is more situational and shame is more personal. I can see how they really differ and that makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much. In our industry of dog grooming, I think that many groomers would admit to feeling like they want to create the image of perfection. We all want to achieve the perfect grooms. We all want booming businesses. We want to manage our life outside of work and get top marks in exams. There's so many things that we really want to Excel at. Can you explain why aiming for perfection is actually quite a damaging goal?
Dr Julie
Many reasons. Well, if I can talk about two types of perfectionism to understand it a little more. Perfectionism is where you're saying, I need to be perfect. You're putting that on yourself. Usually, it's because you're afraid to make a mistake.
Carla
Okay.
Dr Julie
Yeah. Okay. That would be a definition of perfectionism. Then there's what we also with CBT, we call perceived perfectionism. Perceived perfectionism, which I could see in your industry happens a lot is the groomer thinking everybody else expects me to be perfect as well. You're perceiving that from other people. Sometimes it's like we're trying to be perfect and someone's like, You're fine. Don't worry about it. It's all good. But the perceived is everybody else is expecting me and I can't fail. And if I do, I'm going to be judged.
Carla
I suppose both examples can be quite damaging, can't they? Because if you're putting pressure on yourself, you're doing their day one monitoring the level that you're achieving or not achieving, and that sometimes you can be quite biased towards yourself and quite hard on yourself, can't you? Of course. That can be quite damaging at times. But then also, a lot of us, we sometimes go to Gremlin competitions. And then after that, you've got all the pictures that flood Facebook. And people know that you're going for exams and you've got the pressure of coming back saying, Oh, I passed, or, Oh, not this time. So both, I suppose, can really affect you quite heavily, really.
Dr Julie
Can't you? Yes. Why is perfectionism a problem is because it's so subjective. What is perfectionism to you? Most people that are perfectionists feel bad because they never actually get there.
Carla
What a disappointing way to live because you're constantly reaching for a bar that is pretty much impossible to actually reach. It's hard to pat yourself on the back when you're aiming so high.
Dr Julie
Right. It takes away from the joy of what you do. Instead of like, This dog looks great, or I did good in the competition, even if I didn't come first place. I always say progress, not perfection.
Carla
That's what you're saying.
Dr Julie
We want to work towards always being our best and maybe doing better, getting better at what your skills and everything. But what I might think is perfect, you might see flaws in it and vice versa. You're looking to just progress and be the best you can. You may have some times where you think, Oh, that was perfect for me. But if I'm always trying to get to that place, I'm not going to feel that joy and I'm not going to be present in.
Carla
What I'm doing. Could you talk about the link that you see between shame and perfectionism and how it can affect the way that you behave and the choices that you make in life?
Dr Julie
I would say they're very connected. Perfectionism is actually a behavior because you're trying. With the cognitive behavioral therapy, just to go over quick is your thoughts create your moods, which affects your behaviors, and then your physical reaction. That's like muscle tension and sleep issues and all that stuff. Perfectionism is a behavior based on the mood, which would be shame. Am I really identifying shame? Because that's my painful and uncomfortable, so I'll just be perfect.
Carla
If I'm perfect... Even if it's like a mask, like a cover up thing. Yes.
Dr Julie
Then I don't have to deal with feeling a shame because I think I'm doing perfect. Right. So if I may, going back when I was talking about core beliefs, right, is that a core belief could be, I have to be perfect. Right. So what we do is we create what we call behavioral strategies. And the behavioral strategy is, if I'm perfect, then I don't have to deal with me feeling imperfect and feeling ashamed. That could work for a while. That strategy, I'm doing good, I'm successful, things are going well. Then when something happens and you're not perfect for that day, you go right back to that imperfect core belief and you have a meltdown and things aren't going well and it's hard to pull yourself out. If you can make that connection and you're not going to make good, solid choices in your life if that's how you're living your life, because the other mood that's behind that is fear. Fear that people are going to see that I have flaws, that I'm imperfect. It's not coming from a good place. You're always striving for something. Again, instead of just enjoying the journey that you're on and really having some grace for yourself.
Carla
That makes a lot of sense because the thing is as well is when you're trying to achieve something, obviously better than the last time you did it, there's always that nagging fear in the background. You think, Oh, what is f I do that? What if so and so sees that because they told me to do it and then I've obviously not done it how they've said to do it? It all spirals in your head, doesn't it? All the worries of external verification and external judging, depending on who we're talking about. There's a lot of shame and fear involved in that perfection, definitely. I can totally see that.
Dr Julie
I just want to say what you were just sharing, all of those hot thoughts. I should do it because they said so, they're not going to be happy. What if I do it too short? We have 80 or 90,000 thoughts per day.
Carla
Amazing. All of us. So many.
Dr Julie
Yes, too many. Our brain never stops. We're only probably aware of maybe 50 of them at a time if we're even lucky. There's so much unconscious going on that we're just reacting, reacting to. In your profession, I'm guessing, people are comparing each other. That looks great versus, Oh, mine looks better. Yours looks better. Then that feeds that shame right there and the perfectionism instead of that I'm really happy, I think my dog looks great and your dog looks great too.
Carla
I think on the whole, we do try to be really supportive to each other. We all go in with a fresh head. But I think, well, I know me personally, I find it easier to judge myself than judge other people. You come off and you think, Oh, I just did two hours on the table and I've worked my absolute hardest. I thought that bit was going really well. Then you stand back and you see, Oh, that bit, I really worked on that great, but the other bit, Oh, how did I miss that? Even in a salon when you're talking to customers, you could just be practicing your trims in the salon and you're concentrating on improving. Then a customer comes and says, Oh, I like it better when you do that bit like that. It's the same again. It's like, Oh, I really wanted to impress you. I worked so hard. Then that little bit that I didn't see, yeah, definitely. I can definitely see how they’re linked.
Dr Julie
Another thing I just thought of with your profession too, is everyone's going to have a different opinion of what they like about their dog. Everybody's not going to like the same cut. You know better than me, but I think of poodles. Sometimes they cut them where there's a little poofiness around their legs and stuff, and then some have the full hair. One dog can look so.
Carla
Different, right? There's so many variations. One thing we really struggle with in the industry is when a customer comes in and says, Oh, I like it short, but not too short. And you think, Well.
Dr Julie
Come on. What does that mean?
Carla
Yeah, I'm going to need some more help than that.
Dr Julie
Exactly. So you're needing to please your customer, right? And just be focused on that versus what everybody else thinks or what the next customer might like.
Carla
That's it. Yeah. It's really trying to personalize things and tailor it to that customer and get as much information as you can out of them before they leave.
Dr Julie
Exactly.
Carla
So could you explain why occasionally exposing your flaws amongst people that you trust makes you more relatable and can encourage actually stronger relationships.
Dr Julie
Oh, yeah, and that's a very true statement. Well, first of all, we're all flawed. That's just we're human, we're humans. It's human nature to make mistakes. We're just flawed. Nobody is perfect. When we share those flaws, whatever that looks like, that maybe you didn't pass your test or customer wasn't happy with you, something like that, maybe would be an example, it makes you more authentic. Then it's like, Oh, she's like me. She's not judging herself, so I can be more real with her. You feel connection because when you're on the surface and you're like, Oh, everything's wonderful, everything's wonderful. What's there to get close to? You re not sharing anything about yourself when you're just putting out this persona that everything's great.
Carla
I can see that. I suppose if we're all walking around with these big walls up and just showing the best of our lives, then it's just just going to increase the cycle of everyone else feeling more negative about themselves or more worried about sharing things. I suppose the more we all do it, the worse it all.
Dr Julie
Gets, really. Yeah. I feel isolated, I think also is a big one.
Carla
Yeah. No, that is a very good point. That is to me, sometimes I think how it can feel.
Dr Julie
And we're trying to come out of that after COVID, we all felt so isolated. One of the big issues is we weren't able to connect like we normally do. And connecting and being authentic and showing our flaws. We really need to get comfortable and really push for that now, now that we're able to be out and connect with each other. I think when you're authentic, that's when you can learn from others.
Carla
I think like you say in COVID, when we all maybe were a little bit more vulnerable, the community spirit... I know certainly now where I live and I saw it a lot on the news, the community spirit was so much better than usual. You actually spoke to your neighbors when you was in your front gardens and, Do you want me to pick you up some shopping and put it on your front doorstep for you? To people who perhaps were more vulnerable or couldn't be quite so mobile. I totally see that. If you do expose these things and say, I need a bit of help, or, Could you give me some advice on that? It does make you more human. That's really interesting.
Dr Julie
Aren't our most intimate relationships are good because we're vulnerable and we still feel loved. Exposing yourself, which we call exposure therapy, where you put yourself in uncomfortable situations. If you say, This is someone I can trust, so I'm going to be vulnerable, and you share something and you get the good feedback and support, that just supports that I can be myself and people are still going to like me and we can see each other's flaws but not judge each other.
Carla
Yeah, it's like... I've been to the garden center today and I always think of ways to correlate things to physical things. But say, with the climb in roses, if they didn't have their supports there, they'd just fall over and break. Whereas with a little bit of support, they'd just just blossom.
Dr Julie
Don't they? Beautiful. Yes.
Carla
I think that's really interesting. I think it's something that people should definitely bear in mind. How do you feel that social media affects us around the topics of shame and perfectionism?
Dr Julie
Terribly.
Carla
Is it something you encounter a lot in your job?
Dr Julie
Yes. I have people that literally go off social media because if they're, say, they're looking for a partner and they want to get married, and they're like, Everybody's married, everybody's happy. I'm like, Well, that's because everybody's just put in their best pictures. You have no idea what they're going through. People compare, right? Going back to, Oh, they're perfect. Their life's perfect. Mine isn't. People get more depressed, right?
Carla
Yeah, and I guess they feel more ashamed, like, Why hasn't that happened to me yet? There must be something.
Dr Julie
Wrong with me.
Carla
Exactly. Leeds you down the path, doesn't it?
Dr Julie
Exactly. Yeah. Then the other message, to be perfect, comes on social media, right? Especially if you follow of famous people who have people that dress them do their makeup and hair every day. People just look and say, Oh, look how great they are. Look at their figures. Oh, I don't look like that. I'm not good enough. I'm not going to be attractive. The world is not going to like this. You're just inundated, and it's so small in some doses that you just don't get it. But it's like people are spending hours on this, right? And they're just comparing, comparing, comparing. And that's just the depth of view is comparing. I tell people, you're going to be judged and you're going to judge people. And that's just the way what makes the world go around. So we have to accept it. But our circle of trust needs to be people that I can be authentic and show my flaws and don't expect me to pay for it. And let me say this, I don't even want to have friends that are perfect. That'd be stressful.
Carla
I want authentic people. Yeah, it's interesting that way.
Dr Julie
When I share my personal stories, I'd say during my podcast, those are the ones people love because people assume I just got it together because I'm a therapist and everything. So when I share my own struggles, I'm being more authentic. And people are like, Oh, I love that podcast. Oh, that was so helpful. Because they're not comparing either.
Carla
I found a couple of your podcast really helpful. There was one where I know when you spoke about when you was poorly, I actually have a family member who was quite poorly at the same time. It just made me think about the ways to talk about things, questions to ask, and it some of your experiences from when you as a child had the same sorts of experiences. The way that you speak is so down to Earth, really. You just say things how they are and then get into the nitty gritty of the thoughts and the thought patterns. It's amazing how you can listen to a podcast and connect someone's life to your life. I've never done CBT before. I've done a bit of counseling before and there is like, I can see the crossover, but it's different at the same time. But really listening to your podcast has actually introduced it to me. And I really like the idea of changing your thoughts.
Dr Julie
And most people want to deal with what's going on now. Past things always come up, but people are like, I'm not feeling good now. I'm struggling right now. I need some help about right now. And people are getting more educated in the world about therapy, so they don't want to go in and just have support and have someone. They want to walk out and have tools. So for your profession, using CBT, right then and there, if I'm struggling as I'm working on a client, to be able to identify my thoughts and be able to challenge those and just relax and enjoy and get more centered.
Carla
I find it very interesting. If someone is struggling with something that they are ashamed of or have guilt over, and they realize they maybe have an unhealthy relationship with perfectionism. How would you tackle that in your CBT sessions, one to one?
Dr Julie
I can share with you actually a specific tool that you guys can get started, people who get started with. It's a cognitive behavioral therapy tool. It's called cost benefit analysis, we call it. I have one on perfectionism that I could share with you.
Carla
That's all right. I love that. That'd be brilliant.
Dr Julie
Okay. What you're going to do, you just take a piece of paper, put a line down the middle. On one side, you put advantages. What's positive and awesome about striving to be perfect. Then the other side is disadvantages. You put what's not so great about striving to be perfect. I won't read all of it, and I do have a podcast on perfectionism, so I think I go through the whole thing if people want to listen. But here's an advantage. It motivates me to accomplish things I'm proud of and that are rewarding. The point is, it's not like, Oh, don't feel that way. Get rid of that. What are the advantages that while you're holding on to this? But also a disadvantage is that I'm thinking there's always someone better than that I compare myself to, which makes me feel worse. Another disadvantage is that it's exhausting. Yes. It also reinforces this dangerous idea that one must be special to be loved, to people to want your service. But you got to be special and stand out versus just being good enough. Advantage is you're thinking that you are special and you'll be loved if you do things perfectly.
Dr Julie
That feels good. That's an advantage. I'm going to hold on. But then you have to understand that other side where I just said that what's the other side is like, Oh, if I'm not perfect, then I won't be loved. It's very black and white thinking. That's a far and away. When you go through the cost benefit analysis of perfectionism, you're going to have things on both sides because there are some advantages. But the disadvantages, if you get enough down for yourself, will outweigh the advantages. And so it's just starting to see that that's where we want to get to that progress, not perfection. I want people to do their best and to strive. That's wonderful. But enjoy, again, the process. And it's not about always being perfect and understanding how that's actually affecting you because I think people can lie to themselves and saying, Oh, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. I want to be perfect. And it really isn't because it comes out in other ways of stress.
Carla
Yeah, it's easy to say that, but I think the cracks are always going to show in the end, don't they? Yes.
Dr Julie
One other exercise I think would be helpful is look back at the evidence of when you're working on a dog and you're trimming, didn't come out perfect perfect in your eyes. And somebody was like, Oh, my God. I love it. My dog looks great.
Carla
And you're like, Okay. It's amazing how often that happens where you think, Oh, this has been a really stressful one. I wish that finish would look better, or that tail shape was a bit better. Ser, or that dog really didn't want to sit still while I was doing its face, and it's not that tidy. And you're thinking, Oh, the owner is going to come back and think, Oh, what have you done? What have you done? And then they're like, Oh, it looks lovely. I love it. When the face is shaggy like that. And you think, Oh, all that work. Sorry for nothing. Yes.
Dr Julie
So I would literally, if you had a notebook, I would write down just a bullet point, write down those experiences where you were unhappy and the customer was thrilled because you need evidence that you know what? I am doing a good job and people do like my work, even when I know or I don't think that it's perfect.
Carla
Yeah. And then in the hard times, you can look back at that little notebook and actually pack yourself back up again. That's actually a really nice little tip there. I think I'll start doing that definitely.
Dr Julie
I would suggest reading it every... When you start your day, not even when it's the hard times. To change a core belief, you need to be going over that information on a daily basis because you're literally retraining your brain. If you wake up every morning before you go to bed and you just read over the successes, especially the ones when you were questioning yourself, you'll start thinking and believing about yourself differently.
Carla
I, again, so to refer back to counseling because I know it's different, but sometimes after a counseling session, it takes quite a few days after for your brain to keep having that loop train of thought going to start getting it to sink in. I suppose if you read, like you say, these notes that you're making every morning, you'll keep injecting them thoughts to keep that loop of a positive spiral going, rather than the negative ones intruding. I guess you're trying to push them out. Is that how it works?
Dr Julie
Kind of, yeah. And if you think about why do I have the negative ones? Because it's been over and over and over for maybe years. Your brain is really trained to just go there. I tell everybody, our brain believes what we tell it. If you say, Oh, that wasn't very good. Your brain is like, Yeah, it wasn't. Your brain doesn't say, Oh, no, the dog looks wonderful. You got to really be mindful what you say to yourself. It does take time to retrain your brain, but I can tell you the cognitive therapy is the most researched and most successful therapy for people. They actually have done pictures of people's pet scans, pictures of your brain. After 10 weeks, they took new pictures of people that had the CBT, and there literally was a change in their brain chemistry for the better. And it's the only therapy out there that has really concrete evidence that when we think differently on a regular basis, it does affect our brain chemistry.
Carla
Yeah, it's amazing that you can see it as well. That's crazy. I didn't even know that.
Dr Julie
Every time they've replicated the study, they've had the same outcome. And decades ago, they did that the first time. Even though I've been doing this forever and I believe in it 100 %, I still feel joy and I still get so happy when I see how quickly it changes people's lives. It's really amazing stuff.
Carla
Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. It really does interest me. So for someone such as myself who has never been to a CBT session before, could you explain a typical run through of what would happen on your first session of CBT? What would someone expect?
Dr Julie
So first session, I would say, obviously, I'm getting your history, right? And we're going to set, what are your goals? What do you want to accomplish in therapy? Because this is your time, it's your agenda, not mine. We go through the history and find out about the person, and then I get started and I educate them on what is Cognate Behavioral Therapy and explaining that your thoughts create your moods, which affect your behavior and your physical reaction. Then the other biggie, which pertains to your situation is your environment. Your environment you're talking about is like work. How's my work environment? Is it good? Is it not good? Can I make changes? Sometimes people need to leave work environments because they're so stressful. That's a big factor, too, to look at your environment. I educate them on what cognitive therapy is, and then I use an exercise in the Mind over Mood workbook that I use that makes it personal to them. They write down what is their environmental life situations and they write, we figure out what are your physical symptoms, what are your moods, what are your behaviors when you're stressed out and feeling the moods you're feeling, and then what are your thoughts. That's just a beginning to personalize it to them. And that would be a first session. And then I would give them what their homework would be for the week because good CBT is always homework because we want people to get better quicker. And if you're working on it every day... I say your negative thoughts affect you on a daily basis, so we need to be working on it on a daily basis. And then they have homework in between us meeting, and then we keep working and learning the tools for them too.
Carla
Get better. That sounds really good. So could you tell us a little bit about your podcast, where we can find it and why you started it?
Dr Julie
Yes, thanks. Well, you can find me on any platform. Most of my listeners are on Spotify, but obviously Apple. I don't even know all the names, to be honest, but I know there's tons of platforms out there. So it's called My CBT Podcast. So if you just Google that, it'll come up. And I've been doing it since March of 2020. It just so happened it started the month of the pandemic. I started doing it in January, and by the time I was ready, it just worked out that it was.
Carla
In March. And that's perfect timing. It's got to be the best timing ever for that type of podcast. Definitely. I wish I found it in lockdown, actually. It's been so long.
Dr Julie
And why did I start it? I really started because, like I said, I really believe in CBT. And I think if everybody in the world had the tools, our whole world would be a better place because most of us are reacting off our moods. And we don't make good decisions when we do that. Instead of saying, Okay, why am I feeling this way? What am I thinking? So it's just being of service. I wanted to give back. I've been very blessed with my practice and wonderful clients, and I'm just fortunate. I just love what I do.
Carla
And I thought I just wanted to give back. It sounds like you work really hard for that. It sounds actually like not so much luck, but just actually a lot of interest and passion and hard work.
Dr Julie
Yes, thank you. Yeah, I do. I love it, love it, love it. I just wanted to give back on some level. I just found someone to help me get started with it because I didn't know anything about podcasts or what happens. I was pretty naive. I'm like, Oh, I'm in the United States. I'll put it out there. I have heard from people all over the world, very humbling. I have a lot of listeners in the UK, actually. Yeah, I mean, I'm.
Carla
Calling you and it's five o'clock here and it's nine ish in the morning where you are. It's amazing the world of podcasting how easy it is to reach people at such a far distance and it's so easy.
Dr Julie
Yes. It's been just incredible and it keeps building. It's been really wonderful. That's why I did start. I just wanted to give back and get the word out and it's been way more than I ever expected. I'm still trying to keep growing. I appreciate you even having me on that your listeners can maybe learn the tools and it can help them.
Carla
It's absolutely a pleasure to have you. Thank you for starting the podcast as well. I bet it's done a lot of people a lot of good. Do you do sessions over the internet as well? And if so, how can people get in touch with you about that?
Dr Julie
Yes. I do, with two days a week, I go into an office still and I do in person. But most of my other three days I'm doing telehealth. With telehealth, it's restrictive only because I have to be licensed in the state you live in. On my side over here, I'm licensed in California, Washington State, Colorado, and South Carolina, in California, obviously. But there's Cognitive Behavioral Therapists all over the world, especially with the group that I'm connected with. I'm always here for questions and referrals if people want to reach out. I get a lot of emails. I answer all my emails and I get feedback.
Carla
I was actually really surprised when I emailed you about the podcast that you wrote back on. I was like.
Dr Julie
Oh, she actually likes it. Come on, now it's. Thank you. I'm open for people reaching out. I always share people's emails on my podcast. I get their permission, but those have been helpful. If someone's looking for a cognitive behavioral therapist, what you can hook up is feelinggoodinstitute. Com.
Carla
Okay, that's really helpful. I put that in the show notes as well.
Dr Julie
And if you go on there, it'll say zip code or location. All you put in is that, so nobody can contact you. And then whoever in your local area, their names will come up and they're all trained as cognitive behavioral therapists.
Carla
Brilliant. Yeah. That's why you want someone fully trained who you can trust and rely on to be where they need to be to help you.
Dr Julie
Exactly. But I'm open, like I said, if any of your listeners want to reach out or have a question, I'm more than happy to answer those and to give some feedback.
Carla
I know you take suggestions for topics on your podcast as well. I've heard you reach out a few times if people want to send you any ideas.
Dr Julie
Oh, please.
Carla
Yeah. Brilliant. That's great. Is there anything that you wanted to add to today's chat that you think that I've missed or I was also thinking actually as well, what sorts of problems can people get help with for CBT? Because I know we've covered a lot to do with our jobs and dog breeding, but maybe a little bit about what other subjects you can help with?
Dr Julie
Yeah. To be honest, I don't want to sound like it's a general therapy because it's not. But anything you're going through, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy tools can help because even when you hear other people talk about different therapies and they break it down, it goes back to your thoughts. It's all about our thoughts. Again, it's what creates our moods. We don't have moods for the heck of it. We just don't. There's always some connection. Lots of my clients are depression, anxiety, many different types of anxiety, OCD, panic disorder, social phobias, people with bipolar. I've worked with some people that are high functioning, schizophrenia. It's even helped with when they've been able to really identify and own the diagnosis and work on that. Life transitions, relationships, grief, trauma. That's a big.
Carla
One, isn't it? Yeah, big topic.
Dr Julie
Yes, because loss is many different things. It's not just the death of somebody, it's the loss of anything. So if you go through my podcast, you'll see, because I have over 100 now, there's so many topics that I talk about. And when you really understand CBT, you'll understand how it really affects everything in our lives. And having tools is so great because I didn't have tools as a kid. I was like most people. I was just reacting off my moods, and that's when I didn't make good decisions. Because you want to remember, your moods are changing all the time. So you're going to be reacting all the time. And then you're like, Oh, I wish I didn't think that way. And I say, Well, you weren't thinking, you were just feeling. So you went from mood to behavior. And I think why most people in the world don't really change is they find a behavior that works for them. So like anxiety, right? The number one of behavior is avoidance. Well, that works. I just don't have to go there. I just don't have to go do that. I feel fine.
Carla
Yeah. And one of your sayings that I know you always say is that act on... Don't act on your mood, act on what's good for you. I've probably got it the wrong way round. Go ahead.
Dr Julie
Yeah. My mantra is make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. I've had some people that weren't leaving the house and they at least got up and went out and walked to the corner and back home. Because when you make decisions based on how you feel, you're not going to make good decisions. But when you say what's best for me, people know I don't ever tell anyone what's best for them. People know in their heart it's best that I get up and even just go brush my hair, get dressed, get out of my pajamas, or go take a walk. It doesn't have to be a big thing. It could just be taking a small step.
Carla
And that really does apply to little things like you say, just getting up the corner of the road, which to some people is massive, just walking to the corner of the road. But I suppose you can apply it to so many situations in life, no matter how big or small they are. Because, for example, someone who maybe has an addiction or something, they may feel like reaching for the bottle or reaching for a cigarette. But when you take it back to what's good for you, doing what's best for you, everyone knows what the right decision is. It applies to so many areas of life, whether it's staying with someone that's not good for you. There's so many.
Dr Julie
Yes, because why are you staying? Why are you staying? People say, Oh, because I love him. I say, Why do you love him? I've literally had people sit there and they couldn't even come up with an answer. It's just something we say, so we think we should do it. Having a therapist who's cognitive behavioral therapist can really stop and say, Let's slow down. Let's really figure out what your thoughts or your beliefs are that's keeping you stuck here? Or what are your fears? One thing that your listeners can take today, one of the first things I teach people is whenever you have a negative mood, even if it's a little thing, someone's driving too slow in front of you or whatever, just ask yourself, What am I thinking? Instead of just feeling and reacting. You want to get into that habit. When you get good at it, you're always like, I still have negative feelings because I'm a human being, but I'm in my thoughts way quicker. Then I'm like, Okay, slow down. Let's not react. What am I thinking? That's a hot thought. How do I want to handle this differently?
Carla
I actually found one of your episodes, you was talking about anxiety with... Is it Victoria about.
Dr Julie
The neuroplasticity? Dr. Victoria Smith, yes.
Carla
That was such an interesting interview. I remember you said about taking time to stop one part of your brain getting carried away and really just give yourself a bit of time for the logic to come in. From what you've been talking about today, it seems a lot like you're helping your clients find the logic in their thoughts rather than just getting carried away with what they feel. It's really breaking it down. Like you said, it's like putting a jigsaw together. You've got all these crazy things flying about and you're looking at all these different pieces, but you're the person who helps them put them together, make sense of them, and really analyze how you think, rather than just getting carried away with these hot thoughts that you've got.
Dr Julie
Going on. Exactly. That podcast you're talking about is called the Neuropsychology and CBT. That's interesting. It's interesting for people to understand what's actually going on in your brain when you're feeling that anxious. And anxiety is such a physical reaction that people just want to stop it as soon as possible. And that's why they don't take the time to figure it out. They just go, you got to grab a cigarette, go get a beer, whatever it is that they do, like, Oh, I feel better. So then they go back to that same behavior next time they feel anxious. So it's taking the courage. It takes a lot of courage. It's a lot of strength to come to therapy. But say if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, that's when people will make change and be willing to do the work. And then you have it the rest of your life. Cbt is also considered a short term therapy. So t's one of the listeners to know it's not forever. Unless you want to keep going, that's your choice. But the point is to come in, learn tools, get better, and then you can move on.
Carla
What more do you want? That's the perfect goal, isn't it, really? Even if you're checking in, like you say, checking in with yourself when you're feeling good, at least you have those... At least you have the method to use. You've got something. You can refer back to your notes or refer back to... I know you talk about the mind over mood.
Dr Julie
It's in over 100 different languages now, I know.
Carla
You are so interested when you keep recommending it. I need to get this book. It turns out, literally yesterday. Oh, wonderful.
Dr Julie
Well, the workbook will teach you. I do have a podcast on how to use Mind Over Mood, I think it's called. I walk it so I explain how to even use the workbook because the first part can educate you on what it is, and then you can jump around based on what your needs are. You want to use it to learn the tools, so then when you do feel down, you have the tools.
Carla
Yeah, that makes sense. Great. I think that's everything and way more that I was planning on asking you today. You've just given us so much knowledge. Thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today. I really appreciate it. It's been an.
Dr Julie
Absolute pleasure. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Can I share just where to find me?
Carla
Of course, yeah. I'll put it all in the show notes as well. But yeah, you go ahead.
Dr Julie
Yeah. So looking at my podcast, my CBT podcast. My Gmail is my CBT podcast@gmail. Com. My website is mycognitivebehavioraltherapy. Com. Instagram is my CBT podcast, and then my Facebook is under Dr. Julie Osborne. Lots of information on all the platforms that people can learn and read. Like I said, it's all free and there's way they can reach out to me and if they have any questions. I'd be happy to be there for them.
Carla
That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. I highly recommend people go over and have a listen to your podcast because it's very, very enlightening.
Dr Julie
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't commend you that you have found your niche and what you do. I've been able to say, I'm going to do a podcast because it's a specialty that most people don't even think about. When you reached out to me, I was like, Oh, that's interesting because I have a dog and I'm like, Here you go. Take care of them. I never even really thought about the person on the other side.
Carla
That's so easy to do. If it's not your own industry, knowing the ins and outs and the nitty gritty is almost impossible. But yeah, there's quite a lot of pressure that goes.
Dr Julie
Into being a coach. Yeah. No, once you explain it to me, I'm like, That all makes sense. That all makes sense.
Carla
Well, thank you very much. Then I shall listen in soon.
Dr Julie
Okay, thank you.
Carla
I cannot express how much I enjoyed speaking with Dr. Julie today. I would recommend her podcast to anyone. She's so relatable and it feels like she's speaking straight to you. The episode we mentioned with Dr. Victoria Smith called How CBT and Neuropsychology Work Together, I would recommend particularly to anyone who, like me, does struggle with anxiety as they really go into how the different types of anxiety work and the brain science behind what's going on. I wanted to tailor today's talks to our jobs and the worries we may have in different situations, but imagine how CBT can help with other things in our life. Like I've said before, I think a lot of the time it's not just work that stresses us out. We all have our own stuff going on outside work too. Combine that with a stressful job and it can easily get too much. Dr. Julie's podcast covers literally over 100 topics. Just to mention a few more. Depression, anxiety, divorce, illness, fear, bipolar, ADHD, denial, and manipulation. The list goes on. Some of her sayings from this interview that I really liked were progress, not perfection. Your thoughts create your moods.
Carla
Your brain believes what you tell it and make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. So thank you again, Dr. Julie Osborne. Next week, I will be talking to Kelly Davis. We will be talking about how competing at the weekend can help your groom back in the salon. So I'll be back next week. In the meantime, make sure you follow us on whichever platform you get your podcasts and join the Facebook page, Wellbeing for Dog Groomers, the podcast. I hope you have a lovely weekend. Cheerio.