Episode #73 

Money & CBT

𝗠𝗼𝗻𝗲𝘆 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲𝘀 bring up a whole host of feelings in everyone.

Are you dealing with 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘀, perhaps because of the pandemic?

Do you 𝗳𝗲𝗲𝗹 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗮 𝗳𝗮𝗶𝗹𝘂𝗿𝗲 because you can't afford X?

In this listener-requested episode, join Dr Julie as she helps you address 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗵𝗼𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗺𝗼𝗻𝗲𝘆, develop an 𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝗻, and shares how you can 𝘂𝘀𝗲 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗖𝗕𝗧 𝘁𝗼𝗼𝗹𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝘄𝗮𝗿𝗱𝘀 𝗮 𝗵𝗲𝗮𝗹𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗲𝗿 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝗰𝗲.

𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸 𝘁𝗼 𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗻 𝗻𝗼𝘄!

Reference Guides:

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, welcome to my CBT podcast! My name is Dr. Julia Osborn. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into own life.

In this podcast, I'm going to answer some questions and talk about financial concerns and stressors that we all go through. I had an email requesting this and some really good feedback I want to share with you as well before we get started.

As I've stated before, when you guys send me emails, if I check in with you to see if it's okay if I mention your first name. If not, I'm going to keep it confidential. So this is one of those confidential ones.

So this one is someone I've worked with in the past. She just said:

“Dear Doctor Osborn, I just caught up on my podcast and was stunned with your news on your health situation. There's no words to adequately express how my heart goes out to you. Thank you for sharing in such a generous and courageous way.”

“I am grateful to have known you and worked with you these many years. CBT truly saved my sanity. I'm thrilled so many are now being helped with your introduction to the tools of CBT as evidence and emails and reviews. Your podcast has been a God-send to many people around the world.

“I know that sharing this new journey and how to manage it with CBT tools will help thousands more thinking of how many people you are reaching and helping with your brilliant podcast. What an incredible legacy you are building!

“I take comfort in knowing that you have a solid fabric of support on your healing journey. So thank you very much.”

And regarding my health, I'm doing well, just to let everybody know.

But I really appreciate that from somebody that I've worked with and still finding some help with the podcast.

Regarding today, somebody sent a suggestion talking about dealing with the “new normal” after COVID when so many of us have had radically different experiences, some had jobs and accounts that thrived in the stock market, while folks like me have struggled day to day and wonder if we will ever catch up to a new normal. So I thought, okay, we all have a relationship with money, right? So this might be a good thing to talk about and see how the cognitive behavioral therapy can help out.

So I hope this is a topic of interest to you.

Or maybe somebody you know who struggles financially could really benefit from. Kind of hearing how you can use some tools with CBT to help deal with financial stress and making changes. So obviously I am not a professional and financial situations, but I'm going to give you some tips on things you can do differently and how you can find some professional help, too with dealing with your finances. So anything I'm offering today that's not CBT, or just some suggestions and things I've done for myself that have helped regarding managing my finances.

So I'm just sharing them to you in that way.

And then you can kind of take them or leave them or use them and find somebody who's a professional that can really give you some guidance. So if you are struggling with mental health issues, there's a good chance that your selfesteem is affected negatively when you're financially struggling or fearful of how you're going to pay your bills. And one way that a lot of people deal with this. Instead of saving their money, they may overcompensate by buying things. They can't afford to feel better about themselves.

And I've met many clients who have overcompensated with their kids because of what they didn't have as children. And maybe they've done much better. Is it financially as adults and their parents did. So then they kind of go overboard because they're giving them what they wanted. So one thing to realize is just because you're struggling financially doesn't mean you don't spend money.

Sometimes you spend too much money, right. And that's something to think about. How am I managing my money? Am I giving my children too much, like Where's that coming from? Right?

Is it these belief systems? We have those core beliefs, which is part of CBT that for me to be good enough for me to be a good parent. I need to give and overcompensate and buy my kids whatever they want or help every family member that asks me for money. Those are things that you want to say. Where is this coming from?

Especially if you have feelings of guilt. Right. So guilt is a mood. So what are my thoughts that are making me feel guilty if I don't give this person money? And is it coming from a good place or a place of guilt?

If I want to give the money or I feel like I'm being pressured to give the money. So it's great to really take that time and say, what am I thinking about that's causing me to feel this way? And then what's my behavior withholding giving the money? There's lots of things we all know, people that we think are cheap. Is it just a negative quality, right?

Or it's because we don't know their story and maybe they struggled as a kid. Maybe they didn't always have three meals a day, right. Or maybe they lived somewhere cold and the heat wasn't always turned on. So are they, quote cheap? Or are they just fearful and have issues regarding money that they don't want to spend because they're afraid they might not have it when they need it.

So it's a lot to think about. And we don't want to just judge people based on their behavior. We want to understand, where is that coming from? If it's affecting you, there's some people that you might just think you're cheap, they don't affect your life. You don't need to worry about it.

But I'm just saying there's people in your life that you're always frustrated with that you don't think give enough. It's something to think about it and be mindful that this might be coming from some core belief issues that that person has or for yourself. Right? If you're afraid to spend. So just keep that in mind.

Being fearful about your finances also doesn't allow yourself to be present in your day. And as I was mentioning, it can be a reminder of where you were versus where you like to be and how your core beliefs can be triggered when it comes to finances. Another core belief might be that, quote, I'm a failure because I can't afford it again, not 100% true. But if you have a core belief that I'm a failure, that might be the thought that could be connected to it or should, right, I should be able to buy this.

I should be able to afford this.

I shouldn't be in this position. So one thing to do regarding finances is you want to also assess your own values regarding money, gifts and future goals you have for yourself. So dealing with finances, really, it's not just how am I going to pay my bills, right? I mean, that's maybe the foremost and things we need to just address. Can I pay my rent?

I have shelter, food, clothing, my basic necessities. But then taking that step back and say, okay, let me look at my relationship with money. How do I think about it? So I can let you know that a lot of Americans I know I reach people all over the world. I'm just talking about some statistics I have regarding Americans that those with poor finances, your health is likely to be affected greatly as well as your mental health.

And people with financial stressors are 60% less likely to exercise. 44% of those with debt stress have migraines compared to 15% without financial stress have migraines. So it really affects you on many different levels. And you really want to be mindful of that? It isn't just like, oh, I have to pay my bills and everything will be okay.

So many of us overspend. And sometimes it can be tough to know when it was a splurge or if it's really a problem or if it's out of control. Compulsive spending can put you in debt and affect or even wreck your relationships. And then depression, anxiety, low self esteem or triggered. So I suggested taking a minute, doing a full record.

What's the situation that I overspend? Is my spending out of control? Was this a splurge figure? What are my thoughts connected? Am I feeling anxious about how I'm handling my money?

Am I feeling anxious about the future with my money? We want to know sometimes it's a splurge, and that's okay, right. But when it's a problem or it's out of control or every month you're struggling to just make ends meet. You want to take that time and say, okay, where am I spending? Am I really just not making enough money?

Am I not living within my means or am I just spending money because it makes me feel good, right? Shopping can be an addiction, just like alcohol and drugs. So am I fitting into any of those situations or it might just be that I don't have enough money to cover my needs, and I need to come up with a plan so that I can start feeling more confident in control. Another big, big issue. I wanted to talk about this today, too, is because I've met many clients who had parents that didn't have good relationships with money, never taught them how to handle money, how to save, how to write a check.

Right. And when their parents have been broke, I've met a lot of people that are afraid they'll be broke. I've also met a lot of people that have irrational fears of being homeless. They tell me this I'm kind of surprised, and they're not at a place where they're going to be homeless, but they really have that fear. A lot of people.

You know what? It's very true. And I think most people I don't have any numbers, but I think most people live paycheck to paycheck. Right. And then on top of throwing the pandemic.

Yeah, a lot of people got unemployment, and we're okay for a while. But that extra money has stopped. Maybe they can't find a job in their field. They don't know how they're going to go forward and continue to pay for bills. So there's many I know I'm not going to cover every issue and maybe not your situation today.

And I apologize for that. And you can always reach out and say this is something to still address or make note of which I would appreciate. But I'm just trying to think about all the different scenarios and going back to my clients who really work on using the fall record and addressing these hot thoughts. They have because my parents were broke or poor or didn't handle money. I'm going to be the same way or that I'm going to end up homeless and on the streets.

And there's nothing I can do about it. So we use the cognitive average tools to really figure out what are these hot thoughts? And also part of CBT is problem solving, which I love. Right. So let's prompt solve.

Let's come up with an action plan to make you feel more confident that you're not going to end up homeless and really looking at these hot thoughts about comparing yourself to your parents and that if that was their struggle, it doesn't have to be yours. And that's not something that's not part of your DNA. That because they're poor. I'm going to be poor. But a lot of people I've really learned this over the years working with people that these are real fears that people can have and how you're doing mentally with depression, anxiety can affect the way you deal with your money.

Right? So sometimes when people are feeling low or depressed, you may lack the motivation to manage your finances. You don't feel like paying your bills. You don't want to look at the checkbook. It can be overwhelming.

Or if you think it's not even worth trying. Or like I mentioned already, you may end up overspending to feel better. So that's the behavior component. Right? So I feel depressed, overwhelmed.

So I'm going to go out and do some retail therapy as they call it. And I end up overspending. Now I go home. And now that joy I felt at the moment at the store is gone. And now I'm stressed because now I spend too much money and now I can't do that.

And now I don't have money to pay for my electric bill. So it's really important. It's not just surface stuff, like, well, I'll make it up next month. It's really important to really look at the choices I'm making. And why am I spending this money?

Especially if I really can't afford it. So take a minute and look at how are you doing financially? How do you feel about money? Is it a positive thing in your life? Is it something you fear is something overwhelms you?

Some people have enough money and never think they do have enough money. There's just many, many layers. And we want to be having a healthy relationship with our money and feeling good about things. So I want to take this time right now just to give you some problemsolving, tools dealing with money. And I think one of the most important ones is living within your means, whatever that looks like, too.

So I can share with you. That when me and my husband got married, I had my first daughter together. We decided for him to be a stay at home dad. And we shared a car. We even shared a cell phone back then.

So this was and we had one cell phone. I'd be at work. He'd have the cell phone. He could reach me by phone at work if we needed to. But we did that for a long time because that was just a choice that we made.

We wanted to have somebody home with the kids, and I was able to support us enough. But we live within our means. What can you do? And we would find free things to go do, free concert, different opportunities that we could still have fun. And looking back, neither of us feel like we gave up too much.

I know we use the word sacrifice, and I guess maybe we did. But when you make that choice, to live within your means and find what's important to you based on your values and your own goals, it'll feel good and it will all work out. And obviously today we both have our own cell phones, and we eventually got two coverage. But in the meantime, it was most important for us to be there for our kids, and we were happy with that choice. So I'm just sharing that that was just an example that I can think of where we said, okay, we have to live within our means based on one of our goals and our values.

So whatever yours are are fine. But are they working for you? So you want to take that time and say, Am I living the life I want regarding the finances I have or other things I'm willing to cut back on so that I can have some more comfort in my life. So that's just one little note I want to share. Even if you're having finances that are issues for you, you want to stay active.

Seeing friends is really important. Exercising that can be free. Right? Update your resume. If you're looking for work.

Those are active things you can do to feel more empowered and feel good about things in your life. And as I spoke earlier, you want to face your fears, right? So one thing you can do is talk to a financial planner, find out through your work. If that's a free service that they have a lot of times, if you're in a big company, they have that because you might have a 401. You can talk to them about it for free.

You want to create a budget, which is not an easy thing to do. That's something a financial person might help you. I've talked to you about creating a budget. They really don't know even where to start. And don't ignore your financial situation because they can put your future in jeopardy.

We're not always about just what do I need to do today? You want to look at the bigger picture. So facing your fears and how that's getting in the way, a lot of people can feel hopeless, anxiety, depression, and then you may end up withdrawing from activities, which goes against what I was just saying about staying active. So now I'm depressed. I have enough money.

I'm not seeing people. I'm bored. I'm staying home. It's just reminding me of my situation instead of taking action. And I know 25% of Americans say they worry about money most of the time.

And four out of five Americans are in debt. That's a lot of us. That's a lot of people. And it's not easy to get debt free. And it's not that it's bad to have any debt, but having too much debt and being overwhelmed and feel like you're always behind the eight ball is what's going to feed into that anxiety.

That hopelessness and depression. So that's what we want to address. A couple other tools that I've learned along the way. You want to separate your monthly income into a savings fund and a spending fund. You need to find ways to celebrate your success, celebrate the hard work that you do whatever that it might be a little thing.

It doesn't have to be a big thing, but to be like, you know what? I make money. I work hard. I want to maybe go to a movie once a month or find a dollar theater somewhere. Maybe in your neighborhood.

What's something that brings you some joy or what's? One thing you'd like to buy for yourself once a month, whatever that is, just fit it in there because it's really important to have some positive aspects regarding the money that you're making. Something else. If you're willing to is to find friends you can be open to and talk about your financial stress or find a financial counselor to talk about your stress and your fears that can make it more confidential. I know some people are like, I'm not talking anybody about my money.

I don't want anybody to know I'm struggling. That's okay, too. That's something to look at, though. Why is that? You're not willing to maybe share with your best friend?

Is it shame? Is it guilt you have around this? Let's look at what maybe some of those hot thoughts are. Another thing is create ways to spend wisely and feel good about again, the choices that you're making. Also, I think it's important to kind of compare.

Do I have everything I need versus everything I want? There's always a want out there, right? Be nice to have this. Be nice and that. But when I can say to myself, I have everything I need for me personally.

That's a thought that brings me peace. Even if, like, oh, that would be nice to have. You know what? I have everything I need. I'm good.

I'm not going to buy that this month. Maybe I'll wait another month. Maybe I won't get it. But instead of having that fear that I'm lacking something, that fear of scarcity can really create a lot of anxiety. So ask yourself if you have everything you need.

If you don't have everything you need, what do I need to do to get there? It might not happen tomorrow, but I can start planning, right? I'd also identify your goals is important. Everybody's goals are different. And I said I've learned along the way everybody spends money differently.

I always remember the stir. My husband had a really good friend that he surfed with. He drove this old truck. You wouldn't think this guy had any money. He was financially fine.

And where he wanted to spend his money was some people want a nice car. So I remember they were surfing. One day he broke his surfboard. He walks out of the beach, goes across the street, walks into the store, buys a brand new surfboard because he could. And that's where he wanted to spend his money.

So identify what your goal? Some people want a nice car. Some people want a nice house. Some people want a big savings account. Some people I know I wanted to make sure I had money.

I wanted to send my kids to camp and I wanted to go on some family vacations. So I didn't go buy the bigger house. I didn't sell my house when the market went up because I could get a bigger one. I felt if I could live within my means, I wanted to spend my money on these other things. I didn't want to be mortgage Port.

I think they call it where all you're doing is paying your mortgage. You can't go do anything. That was my goal for me. So look and see, what are my goals? What do I want to do?

And where am I willing to cut back so I can meet those goals? And whatever they are again, they're okay. It doesn't matter what other people think or what their goals are, right? Some of us have parents that grew up during the Great Depression. Their values are to work, stay at the same company forever, and they maybe didn't go on vacation.

They didn't buy those extra things. And that might have been a message we were given. But does that really fit my life today? Where am I financially and what makes sense for me? And as I've always said, make a plan.

I call them action plans, actually, in the mind over mood book. There's a section on an action plan. So the action plan is, you know, what is my goal? What am I going to start? What are some possible problems that might get in the way and what are my strategies?

So this is looking at the bigger picture and saying what's important to me. How have I been spending my money? Why aren't there where I want to be and what's been getting away? One thing I've done before, too, is depends on how you spend money. Some people charge and then pay at the end of the month.

Some people might use their debit card when I use my debit card more. I have it in my check register and I would go through it at the end of the month and see Where's my money going. And sometimes I'm like, okay, maybe we're eating out a little too more than we thought we would or everything's going okay this month. But you want to find a way to track your money, to be able to go back. I think it's helpful and look at where it's going.

And am I comfortable with that? Or do I want to back off a little bit? Or I want to cut back or different things you can do. So again, finding a financial counselor. I recommend all the time to my clients.

And most people I talk to do not have financial counselors. Certified financial planner. I guess I would call it CFP again, finding someone for that. They can just kind of look at your portfolio or help you create one help you create a portfolio that fits your goals and where you want to get to. There's just so many things we don't think about or we don't have the strategies again because we weren't taught them, possibly by our own parents.

I've had so many people say high school should be teaching kids just how to write a check, right? What do you do when you first move out of your house? You have to turn on your gas, electricity. These are all financial decisions that we have to figure out and know how to do. It's just life strategies that most of us weren't taught.

And I think sometimes parents just might be wrapped up in life or they might be stressed out and not think about it or say, I figured it out on my own, so my kids will just figure it out one day. I guess that might be an unconscious thought, but they don't take the time to sit down and really show them how to manage life and finances. And again, they may not be good at it or weren't good at it. So you weren't given that either. So lots of different.

The good news is there's lots of strategies. No matter where you are financially, you can work things out. Things can get better, and it's really important if you're really stressed to find some professional help. So you're not laying in bed at night worrying about being homeless. Being in fear of never having enough money.

Being stuck in that scarcity is not a good place to be. So just talking to somebody, the therapy part is learning the CBT tools so I can address my half thoughts and then look at what my behavior is. So my behavior might be just taking action to get some help. My behavior is changing the way I'm spending my money. What are my values connected to that?

Why have I spent my money the way I have, right? Why have I maybe never pushed myself to be fully employed? Some people are under employed because of their own lack of self esteem or willingness to put themselves out there thinking I can't get that job, they won't hire me. So I'm not even going to try. So the fear of failure maybe gets in the way.

So that's where the CBT can really make a difference is finding out what are my own beliefs and values that might be getting in the way of me making good decisions on a financial basis. And it's just like a snowball, because if I'm not addressing those issues, my likely stay in this financial distress, which then just feeds on my depression and my anxiety. So there's so much to learn here. There's so many things that you can do, and it's not that once you're financially set, life will be perfect, right?

But money is a big deal in our society.

Obviously, most everything costs something and we want to not be going to bed every night with that worry, we want to feel good. We want to wake up and we know that I can cover my rent, my mortgage, I have food on the table, all my necessities are met, and that's another way of practicing mindfulness, right is being present and saying again, do I have everything I need not? Do I have everything I want? And if I don't have everything I need, what do I need to do to make that happen?

If you do have a family, this is great conversation at any time or at dinner.

Just talk about finances or hey, guys, we're going to maybe cut back on some of the channels on our cable bill because mom and dad want to save up money to go do something else or realize you're spending a little too much on this or that have an open discussion. Don't worry about bringing it up to your kids. Don't worry about them being disappointed. You're teaching them great lessons on being responsible, looking at the bigger picture and what's important, because most kids, which is good. We don't want our kids worrying about if the bills are going to be paid or if they're going to be free.

We want them to be able to live their lives, focus on their school and not be worried about your mom and dad pay the bills. Right? So part of being responsible in the parenting aspect is making good choices, not overspending just to make your kids happy, but also talking to them and teaching them ways of saving money. What are things to spend on regarding your own values and whatnot? So again, that's just another example.

But I think a lot of parents don't ever want to bring this up to the kids don't think that they bring anything up. The kids are going to worry. If you have a plan, you share that with them. We don't need to worry. But this is our plan and we decided this is what we're going to do.

Totally good. And then that gives them an opportunity to ask questions. Maybe they'll have an idea you didn't think of, right? Or they can say, oh, is everything? Oh, yeah, everything's okay.

But this is what we're going to do. And then they're going to remember that and they're adulthood when they go out and I think you can just spend, spend, spend. And somehow the bill gets paid. Right? So take time for yourself.

If you have a partner, talk about, where are we financially? Do you have any fears? These are my fears. What are some ways we can adjust things? If you are in a relationship, I really push both people knowing where you are financially.

I've met a lot of couples that one person pays the bills, which is fine, and the other person is just clueless to the savings account. How much is in the checking account? How do I get to things if God forbid, something happens to you. They're just kind of living life. It's comfortable and they don't know anything.

And I really say, oh, stop, stop. You need to be involved. You need to know where you are financially and where your health is financially, right? And how you all think about it and what's the big plan and feel like you have some say. So.

It's true that usually one person is paying the bills. But don't be in denial about what's going on. Say, can we sit down and look, do you have a spreadsheet? Do you have a budget? I want to look at what's going on.

I want to be more part of. And if that's a conflict, I'd recommend you guys go do a little bit of marital therapy and have a third person walk you through that and find a better way of balance and having some healthy boundaries with each other. So you both know what's going on. So these are just some ideas regarding getting into a healthy financial place. But the first thing to do is to take some time, do a fall record, maybe some journaling.

What are my fears? What are my concerns? What are my values regarding money? And how do I see it in my life? What is its purpose?

Am I bringing the old baggage from my childhood, my past relationships, my past experiences that are getting in the way of me enjoying my life, enjoying the accomplishments I've had, being able? Maybe I have enough money and I never spend anything on myself. What are my values regarding all of that? That's a good place to start and then come up with some action plan to set your goals in motion. And again, don't be afraid to go get some professional help.

Whether it's for emotional issues and financial issues, it can really give you some peace of mind and you owe it to yourself because you work hard and you show up every day and you're trying to do your best. We are doing your best, probably. And sometimes things are falling short and we got to figure out what the problem is. Is it me and my values and my emotional health, or is it just that I need to tweak some things and do some things differently? That's all.

So I hope this was helpful. I hope I gave you a couple of idea. Again, if there's anything you feel like I missed regarding issues regarding finances, I'd love to come back to this topic, be able to answer your questions, take out the tools that you feel will be most helpful. Always rely on your CBT tools! Those are always going to help and give you some clarity on where you stand with yourself and give you some direction and peace of mind.

As always, thank you for being here and spending some time with me.

If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the Subscribe right button so you don't miss the next one. You can email me at MyCBTPodcast@gmail com.

Stay safe and be well.