Episode #136
No Matter What & CBT Part 2
ft. Anthony Osborn
What does it take to really mean ‘No matter what’ in your relationship?
Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, and my special guest, my husband, Anthony Osborn, as we discuss the journey we took to be able to embrace ‘No matter what’ with another person.
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Full Episode Transcript
Julie
Hi, it's Dr. Julie for my CBT podcast. I'm a doctor of psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life. So thanks for being with me. I hope everybody's doing well. I wanted to share an email I received from a listener first, as I always like to do.
It says,
“Hi Julie, I would just like to say that I really enjoy listening to your podcasts, all the way from Ireland. I found them so helpful and interesting. I suffer from PTSD and other trauma related incidents and it is so comforting to be able to listen to your guidance and wisdom. I would say it is life changing.
So thank you and keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next podcast. So thank you so much for that email. It means the world to me and to just know that it's life changing for you is all I need to hear. Really keeps me humble and why I'm doing the podcast in the first place.
So again, please send me your emails. I'll share them and we can learn from each other.
So I'm kind of excited. I have my last podcast you guys know was called no matter what And as I finished it up, I thought, you know, I should bring my husband on in so you guys can meet him and kind of get his perspective of how he felt about taking on the concept of no matter what, when our marriage and for our marriage, our relationship.
And just wanted to ask him some questions and maybe give you guys some more insight. And one thing I do want to mention, and you can look this up after you listen, is he did some research for me and I was mistaken, pleasantly. When I shared in the last podcast that the organization called Recovering Couples Anonymous is not around.
It actually is around and there's actually the chapter in Africa. But they're all online. But if you look up Recovering Couples Anonymous on Google, they will pop up. So we're gonna check that out. We haven't had time. We just kind of found it today. And we're happy to see that it's still out there. So I just wanted to share that with you guys if that's something that you're interested in checking out.
So my husband's name is Anthony. Thanks for being here with me, honey.
Anthony
Hello. Anthony Osborn, the significant other.
Julie
Yes, you are significant. And I appreciate you being willing to talk. I kind of, again, wanted to have the audience share, you know, or hear, not share, hear your perspective on what, no matter what's been, or what the meeting's been for you and our relationship, kind of how it started and.
Some things that stand out to you even before we got married about our relationship and all of the hot thoughts you had going on back then that affected you in our relationship and maybe in other ones in the past. So, what would you like to share? I'd
Anthony
Like to start off first with the concept that when it was presented, no matter what it was definitely scary in the beginning of just kind of confronting it and realizing it or trying to Bring it in, into reality, you know, that going forward regarding that concept.
Like I, you know, like I said, at first it was, like, scary. But now, of course, talking to it on this side, it's, it's been a serious foundation of our relationship. And I feel it's extremely been beneficial in regards to growing as a couple.
Julie
Right. So, can you share with them how you thought before, or maybe even when we started dating, all those years ago that when we had a conflict, what would normally go through your mind?
Anthony
Yeah, yeah, even, you know, way early in my recovery I had enough insight to kind of, at least, at least kind of talk out some of my feelings. And not just react on my feelings. So again, that goes back, based on Julie's concept of making decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. And I remember that real feeling of maybe once having a conflict or heated conversation with her, that that real gut reaction, react, was, hey, I can just leave.
And I thought, but then at the same time I thought about it, that's good. Is that really best for me? You know, and it wasn't. But boy, it was a strong, like I said, embedded, dysfunctional. Maybe it was, again, it was there for a reason. Somehow it had helped me survive, not thrive. That concept of, you know, when it got tough, to leave.
And with the concept of no matter what, it makes it, you look at it a lot differently.
Julie
Yes, yeah. And you remember when we were, when we were dating, we a situation came up and it was hard for me to hear, because I was still healing from my abandonment issues, but I remember being at the house and you saying, you know, what I'm thinking is I just want to leave right now.
Anthony
No, but No, it was a strong feeling. I'm, I'm Yeah. There was some confidence Yeah. Yeah. Really? Just verbally said, I really want to leave. But you know what? I know that that's not the best for me. But it is a strong feeling.
And if I had some insight to try to, at that time, to be a little more proactive in my life, I probably, I could have left. If I didn't have some, a little, some insight. Regarding, you know, you know what? I just, you know, I'm just verbalizing, just verbalizing, help me out. Not to react like that. I hope so.
Julie
So just saying it helped you stay present with me, and helped us talk it through.
Anthony
Yes.
Julie
Right? Yes. So on your side, I'm guessing you're saying like, I can tell Julie I really want to leave, and she's not going to say fine, go, or abandon the relationship. Right? Like she can hear that, and we can walk through it, because I know at my core I really don't want to leave.
Anthony
Yep.
Julie
Right? That's kind of where you were at.
Anthony
That's where I was at.
Julie
Right, and I can tell you guys, I mean this is over 30 years ago. I remember this day too. I remember sitting there going, Oh my God, in my head like breathe, breathe, breathe. It's the last thing I want to hear. It's so scary to hear somebody wants to leave. But I knew I just needed to be present and hear that so we could keep talking through it.
And this is before, again, we went to the conference and even heard the concept of No Matter What. Right? But I know we definitely, for us, we've definitely had some connection we felt a long time ago. Me and Anthony are very different, I've got to tell you guys, we, I mean, Anthony's always like we're going to focus on our similarities, not our differences.
I think I've said to you guys before, our kids said, you know, they never, you know, match us up on a dating app. Our backgrounds are very different, but our similarities really, really connected us and has helped us, you know, build the marriage we have today. So. We just laugh, you know, when you kind of understand that, but So we both came from some challenging childhoods and still had some baggage that we had to work through when we met each other.
Do you agree with that?
Anthony
Yes.
Julie
Yeah. And I was learning from Anthony about the 12 step program because I didn't really, I knew of it, but I didn't, I wasn't really engaged with it. So, can you share with that how, you know, the no matter what really fit into the 12 steps for you, how that worked.
Anthony
So, yeah, so being exposed to the 12 steps the first concept you'll hear in substance abuse meetings is that you'll hear, you're not going to use no matter what.
And it's very scary for, obviously, a person new or trying to stop their addiction. And That, you know, that, you know, but it just, you got to take it in, like you said, in your core, that this is what's best for me, but I know I feel like using. So so that concept kind of was exposed me in that way, that whoa, you know, that I could take it to another level, regarding my relationship.
Julie
Right. And so, and share with me, because I shared with on the first podcast, My experience when, you know, we really didn't know what we were walking into when we went to Recovering Couples Anonymous, right? We just thought, oh, it's a 12 step group, right? We didn't know that most of them were, had, it was sexual addiction, which we really didn't know a lot about.
And do you remember, you know, sitting in that, I remember sitting in the group, the circle, and they're just talking about, oh, no matter what, we're working this out. Do you remember that, and us looking at each other?
Anthony
Yeah, well, I remember them saying it, and they kind of, like, again, I thought we talked about it earlier, but they're taking it in, Like almost like, oh maybe, I looked over at her and said, like I said, we've both been in marriages before.
Or we've both had, you know, divorces. Yeah, and I'm just like, almost like, are we in the wrong room? You know, like, let's, you know, but you know, we really had to like, right now, we couldn't like take it in right there. It's like afterwards going to the hotel room and saying, hey, we just heard something here.
Like our, you know, that, that was kind of foreign to us.
Julie
Right.
Anthony
Like, like almost like to me was like heavier than marriage files. You know, in deaf dude apart, it's kind of a little easier sometimes, you know, but versus no matter what. I guess and that like I said, the Concept is again a core of our relationship or a foundation.
Julie
So what so what do you what do you think? I know I share with me my abandonment issues. What do you think was scary for you to really embrace? You know, no matter what with another person
Anthony
Fear just pops in my head. Just fear, like, fear that, you know, that something's gonna come up that I can't, you know, that I gotta go. I gotta leave. Okay. You know, like, I have that, I always have that outlet. And again, that, That option. Yeah, and that maybe, again, we made the seg, you know, a segway to, What I think we were told, that underneath, why a lot of relationships actually do, are, don't make it.
Because underneath, they have that, they, they go in with that option.
Julie
Right.
Anthony
So here, here's the option, it's, you know, that feels comfortable. I can go in and I can always leave. Now you take that away, oh.
Julie
Right. You know. Right. And so the, so, so the hot thought was like, you know Right. You know, I won't be able to leave.
I have to stay here and that created fear if I commit to this, right?
Anthony
Right, and and you know what in the back when we're trying to use the word hot thought I think it in a way that I really took it in that you know This is actually if I really have a person that really can commit to this that i've committed to this relationship.
This would make it Actually less fear the opposite regarding Regarding the fear there's security versus, you know, very secure feeling. That's another fear, I mean, or an instinct that we try to, you know, gather or we want.
Julie
Right. So. So that's interesting. So you want to, so most people are reacting to fear.
So I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to do that. I have to protect myself. But you're saying, you know, really committing to the, no matter what, and really going a hundred percent in with our relationship that it actually did the opposite. Yes, right. It took the fear out and actually gave you more security.
Anthony
Correct.
Julie
Yeah. So, I mean, how crazy is that, right? Because nobody's going to be thinking that when, you know, they're thinking about this, it's more like, oh, if I say no matter what, how do I protect myself? Like, those are the hot thoughts we have. Now I can't protect myself. You know, now I'm too vulnerable.
Like, oh, I got to stay even if I don't want to stay. Like, you know, so there's all these, all these hot thoughts, right? All these automatic thoughts that we have that'll be like, I don't know if I really want that. I think at the core, I think, if we're all honest, we really want that in our lives. Right? Who doesn't, who doesn't want to be with someone when you, you know, knowing you're fully committed.
Right? And not just we're going to stay married because we're, we should, right, or that's what we're supposed to do. We're happily married. We're happily together. Right? That we're not together just because we said, Oh, we're going to be together. But no matter what gave us the, you know the space. To continue to grow our marriage and to deal with some really difficult challenges that we had Along the, you know, over the years.
Is that fair to say?
Anthony
Yes, very fair.
Julie
Yeah So do you find that if or when you share this with others that they tend to be kind of like, ooh I don't know if I'd want to do that or You know, I haven't met a lot of people where I initially tell them and they're like, Oh, well, tell me how to do that. That's what I want.
Like, I've not had that experience. I think eventually people get there, but initially it sounds a bit overwhelming. What do you think?
Anthony
Yes, I mean, when you first presented it, I think there were reactions like mine. Like, you know, Whoa, what are you talking about?
Julie
And do you talk to people about it today in your life?
Anthony
I try to present it to couples that I think, Okay. See, obviously, in recovery. Yeah. That, that, you know, that. So, yeah, I do talk to them. Mm hmm. To say, you know, that, you know, that, hey, that this was our experience regarding recovery couples anonymous. And I think, again, someone that has a little more of a foundation regarding some spiritual concepts that, They felt their company maybe could take it in.
So it's not like somebody just, like, a conversation you would just bring right up, seeing a couple. Right. They have to have a little more growth, spiritual growth underneath them. Yeah. And even kind of present it or talk about it.
Julie
Right. Right. And you know, it's interesting, when I think about like our backgrounds, like I share with you guys, you know, both my parents were divorced, you know, I have like, I don't know, what, three, four divorces in my, in my lifetime with, between my two parents, and Anthony's parents were married, you know, do you know how many years they were married?
Anthony
Death do you part.
Julie
Death do you part. They both have passed, but they've been together, and they went through a lot too, and they really stay together no matter what. Yes. Right? And that was something that was kind of given to you, like I was saying in my first podcast about this, a lot of us aren't given very good role models.
Right. Just because people are together doesn't mean you get good role models either, but you know, you did see that was I think you share with me that that was something you know you took in that like They really had some big challenges and and nobody it was never in divorce was never even brought up Like you were never worried about that.
Anthony
Never an option. I never ever since it ever been option, and that doesn't probably see for I Get things can happen as a kid. That's obviously very this gives you a secure feeling that that's not That, yeah, concept of that the parents are going to try to work it out.
Julie
Right, right. Yeah, that's something, you know, I didn't even talk about that, that, and I share with a lot of parents that, you know, it's very unconscious, but, you know, for kids to grow and have healthy development, they need security.
Right? And when they, you don't want your kids to worry about your marriage. Because you don't want them at school going, Oh, are they fighting at home? Is mom going to be there when I get back? Is dad going to be there? Like, you want them to be able to leave the house, feel secure, everything's going to be okay.
And that, for them to see us have conflicts, because they've seen us have conflicts, but they see us resolve our conflicts. And like, that's what's a healthy normal. And I don't have to worry about if my parents are going to get divorced. Because that's a real thing for a lot of kids. You know, they see the fighting, they don't see people resolve things, they're kind of left, or they hear, you know, parents say, yeah, we're divorced, or I hate you, or whatever, right?
So, our kids didn't have that, and they knew, we told them and educated them about, like, no matter what was for us. So, they never worried, even if we were having a disagreement, they just knew, like, they're going to figure it out. Right? So, it wasn't just for our marriage, but how it really affected our kids as well, was a really positive thing.
We didn't think about that, I think, when we said, oh, we're going to do this for us, but that was just kind of another benefit. Do you agree with that?
Anthony
Yes, I think that, I agree with that.
Julie
Yeah, and you can see that that that can be really helpful now that we've parented our kids. I mean, not that we're dumb, but you know, they're all grown and on their own, right?
That they still are out there living their life, and they know that we're together, and they don't worry about that.
Anthony
Yeah, yeah, they make fun of it. That's what I threw up to her, to her fault. To her fault, yeah. It's funny.
Julie
Yeah. So can you share, is there any other, you know, thoughts that you have about when you know, this concept of no matter what really you feel has played a significant role?
Anthony
I don't know if this is a curveball, but I, in, far as maybe where the, in my first marriage, it's, it's interesting that I wanted to, When, when it was, I don't want to say it was falling apart, but I knew on, it was on, definitely on its way out. That this mode of trying to say, well, you know what, I don't want to leave anything on the table.
In regards to trying to at least do what I could on my part. Huh. And the main thing was to say, you know, so I could look at my daughter's, my, my daughter at the time, when she gets older, to saying, hey, you know what, a lot of it, I don't want to just say that, you know, I just want to be there just for me, but obviously, you know, obviously, a big reason why was because, you know, I had a daughter.
And so, I thought whenever I have, I thought if I ever had the opportunity again to be in marriage that maybe somewhere underneath that, you know, that I really would like to, this concept of, you know, really trying to work it out, you know, before that even the option of divorce comes in a lot further, a lot deeper. So, I was able to, I was able to, I guess in a weird way my prayer was answered, regarding recovery of couples and none of this. In a way, the concept came. You know, that, you know, the fact that we definitely, as we talk about marriage, we're going to have children. So having that concept really made me even feel more reassuring, having children with you. More than just, well, not because you're going to marry someone, there should be a serious commitment.
Julie
Right. Yeah. And do you think that now that you know yourself, you so well with all the personal growth you've done and being sober for so many years and, you know, still being really involved in the 12 step program and giving back, looking back that maybe it was, the concept was a little hard for you like it was for me at first, because you had issues of abandonment also, emotionally, like emotional abandonment.
Anthony
I'm going to say, but again, when I think it was presented to me, I, I was just, I was just open for it. I, I don't want, I want to say it was just magic, but I was, because again, this, no matter what concept regarding not to use was already really ingrained.
Julie
Right.
Anthony
And I guess really there was some religious background that was a.
Good concept, I thought, for me, that, you know, regarding, you know, not deftly apart, but I really think I really wanted, I really wanted that…really somewhere in your core, like, that was just reassuring.
Julie
That you wanted to know that…
Anthony
You know, that my marriage is, I'm going in with, you know, no matter what.
Right. I'm gonna work it out. I, I don't, I, I mean, when it was presented to me, but I think it was presented to me, Mm hmm. So, you know, I could see a lot early on, you know, I could see that was not like, no, like not having that out, not to have that escape or that escape route or you weren't, you weren't ready for it earlier in your life.
Julie
Yeah.
Anthony
So you're just throwing it out there. I don't want anybody to be scared. Like, hey, build up to it. Yeah.
Julie
And I would say, you know, we don't have that fear, but it doesn't mean that there's moments in our life still that, you know, we're like, I need to talk to you about some of this. I kind of feel vulnerable.
This is a little uncomfortable. I want to say it the right way. I think there's moments because we're growing together and, you know, we do all the things that we do to stay healthy in our relationship that, you know, as an individual, it's still, you know, hard to be vulnerable sometimes. Do you agree with that?
Anthony
Yeah, of course. And I I think interdependent. Right. Is that the word we'd use? Yeah. Yes. I think, I think that comes with, I think it's able to come with no matter what. You know, that I'm able to kind of, hey, I'm able to present some of my things that I want to do without you. And I don't feel like I'm, you know, not including you or don't think about you or care about you.
I think this concept helps to bring that, those thoughts and desires out. Right.
Julie
Right. Meaning like when you've gone, so Anthony's like gone on surf trips, you know, and I don't go, you know with his cousins or some buddies You know, I've gone on some trips alone like back, you know to visit Buffalo I just did that recently or I've gone to reunions and you know, my mom was alive My mom was a big fan of Anthony's But I remember she said you guys are some of the healthiest couple one of the healthiest couples I met because you allow yourself to still be so independent of each other, right?
So, and I laugh because I say when you've maybe gone on a trip, you know, I've had other women, like, say to me, like, Oh, you let him go? And I'm like, What? What do you mean I let him go? Right? And you, giving you that space, giving me that space, I think when we do our own thing, or connect with our own friends, or you know, surfing's this passion that you have that you come back As a better partner, and I come back as a better partner because we allow ourselves to feel filled up in other areas with other people and interests, and we're not just dependent on like, oh, you know, just each other.
Anthony
Yeah, but obviously I respect and I really love that part of our marriage.
Julie
Right. And I think having that trust underneath we don't worry when I said like, you know, oh you let him go like I'm worried about I don't worry about you doing anything when you're gone like I'm just happy you're being able to get that passion fulfilled in that way And I know how much you love it and I'm able to do my thing That you might not want to do, right?
And then when we come back together, that interdependence is like, I got my needs met in some other areas as well, not just the marriage is a big part, but we also are still, you're Anthony, I'm Julie, and we still have certain things that we need in our lives to feel fulfilled and happy.
Anthony
Yes, I agree.
Julie
Okay. So, you know, I think, and every, you know, this is just our story, everybody. I agree. It doesn't mean that this is your story, everybody, you know, has different stories. We just want you to find a way to be happy. We want you to find a way to let go of your fear in your relationship, allow yourself to be vulnerable and really work on your communication and, and realizing that, you know, individually it's such a better way to live when you can take the fear out and not have those thoughts of like, you know, of all the, what ifs, what if they leave?
You know? What if they're not willing to talk to me, you know, it just gets in the way of I think being authentic in your relationship, right? And that you know, having some foundation beforehand, you know, for each, each of us I think had some foundation regarding therapy or you're like in your program that allowed us to really, you know, take that concept on, right?
I mean, I think having the 12 steps beforehand was helpful.
Anthony
Yes, I want everybody just have to have 12 steps to get into marriage, but…It definitely gave me a more of a spiritual and obviously Coming in I was I think this would help in any relationship coming in with being a little more honest And I should say a little more striving to be honest And with myself as well as to my partner and that was very important And I think that's another, you know, I guess you gotta be, you gotta, you gotta try to somewhat two healthy people come together, obviously it's gonna help.
Julie
Right. Yeah. Yeah, and the healthier, I mean, you attract where you're at, I tell people all the time, right? Then, why do I keep attracting these unhealthy people? Well, you're as healthy as that person, right? So when you're, the more you work on yourselves, and the healthier you get, that's who you will attract into your life.
And that's it. That's a huge motivator. I hope for all of you to work on yourselves if you're looking for a partner To get you know as healthy as you can because that's who you'll bring into your life I really believe that with the just the energy that we put out there
Anthony
So I don't want to have this urge….So 12 step and i'm not going to get into the 12 steps everything to kind of sum them up. It's I guess you have this Your spiritual journey so when they say trust god and Second thing is clean house. So that's that's a big subject right there, but you can metaphorically clean house means a lot of stuff regarding your past So try to become present so I felt that I was at and let's say I was you know I think that's kind of where I was a pretty present at the time when this concept came up So I was able to not to say that you can't resolve your past and not taking that concept but trying to be present Yes.
And, I don't, I don't want to confuse anybody, but yeah, I think that kind of sums it up.
Julie
No, that's an excellent way of saying it because if you let your past come into your present, that's going to muddle things up. And if you're focused on the future and worried about what's going to happen, that's going to, you know, you can't be present, right?
Anthony
I mean, present is all we have anyways, right?
Julie
True. Yeah. Yeah, if we get too far in the future, we're….We end up being anxious. Yeah. And we make assumptions and, you know, we get in the way of ourselves, I think. All right.
Anthony
So, I guess that's where we can kind of, I think this is kind of going in a, in a way that, where I could see where the concept of a recovery couple is anonymous.
One, there's a trust in God. And then the two would be kind of as a couple, they, we kind of, there was a concept of trying to, you know, get as, as a couple. Their baggage. I don't know if that's, I don't, I'm a little confused anyway, but but to be present, you know? Right. Right there. Right. Not try to get as a, as, as our relationship, not to get too far in the future regarding it, and try not to let our baggage get in the way of us for the day.
Right. Try to take it back to 12 step concept one day at a time.
Julie
Right. And I think too, as you know, the years have gone on and, I've shared again in the first one on no matter what that, you know, we're always evolving and changing So we need to communicate and we're not the same as like we did when we got married years ago or started dating But you know if I say, you know, these are my needs now They're different that because I know that you're here and you're wanting to work on it That I can share that and you know in a really concrete way and say, you know I need more of this now than maybe I did before or I need support regarding this, you know situation or You You know, definitely when we parented our kids, we had some different parenting concepts at times that we talked through.
How do we want to handle it? You know, our kids different personalities, all that kind of stuff, right? That even now, if I'm gonna come to you and say, you know, I really need you to support me in this way, or I need you to, you know, be more mindful about, I don't know, just asking me how my day was. That's always been important to me, right?
That Being able to say that to you, and I know that you're going to take it in and try the best you can, because we're both on the same page on wanting to make things good. And we're not getting, you know, we don't get comfortable in the way that we're not always trying to be, you know, the best partner for each other.
Anthony
Okay, so my reaction to that was when I'm trying to look at the past versus right now. Yeah. That how that evolved, or before I thought you were getting on me. Versus now, as we've, we've gotten, you know, gotten seasoned with this, that it's more like, hey, you really want to enlighten me to be a better partner.
Julie
Oh, good. Ouch. Everybody hear that? That's good.
Yeah. So that's it. So you're thinking, there's your CBT, right? Your thought was, oh, she's getting on me. So now I'm probably irritated and I don't want to really hear what she has to say. But now you're like, oh, he's trying to enlighten me. That's the thought. Right. And then your mood is calm and open to hearing what I have to say.
And you're making decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. There you go. Bam! It all comes together. Right. Okay. Alright. Any other any other thoughts or anything that comes to mind you want to share to, that you think might be helpful?
Anthony
No, I, I, coming into this, I thought I'd be kind of nervous or everything.
This is, this is nice. It's very comfortable and I feel like hopefully this is helpful to someone.
Julie: Yes, Yeah, no, I, you know what? And what they, you know, say too is, you know, take what you like and leave the rest, right? And, and I want to, just one last thing because it's on my mind.
I know we talked about 12 steps a few times because it's been a part of our lives and, you know, Anthony's recovery, but and I know a lot of people aren't familiar with the 12 steps or they think it's just alcohol or drugs, but there's, you know, recovery, there's so many recovery groups just for, you know, so many anxiety, depression you know, mental health support groups, like, you know, the 12 steps.
It's just a way to live and it can be used in all different areas. So I don't want you to think like, Oh, well, I don't have an addiction to alcohol or drugs that doesn't pertain to me. We're just talking about that. It's a way to be present. It teaches us to be present. It teaches us to be honest every day.
It teaches us, you know, how, how to make an amends to people when, you know, we do wrong. It's just a good way of living. So I don't want you to get turned off thinking, Oh, they keep talking about this, that it's just a concept that's helped us communicate. Right and be present and understand how we want our relationship, but there's you know quote addiction You know people are addicted to people right people are addicted to shopping.
I mean, there's there's a million You know, it can fit in your life in any way. That's just kind of where this all started Why do we even go to the conference? Recovering couples and I miss because you were in the 12 step program and I was getting engaged in it because of you and we thought Oh, let's go check this out.
We're gonna be in the area And again, we just kind of walked into something brand new that was really Life changing for us at least Right, and I love to share with other people To just start thinking differently about the relationship Right because the you know, the no matter what like I think I mentioned this before too is I believe at least the only unconditional love That we have is for our children Right, that's not You know relationships is not unconditional.
I have conditions you have conditions right kids, you know, we love them unconditionally You know, and that, that's why the parent child relationship is different in that way, and then we hope, you know, we tell our kids all the time we love them no matter what. And I think they've realized that from things they've shared or things they've gone through that, you know, we've never, it's never been like, Oh, you know, we're going to disown you or done.
It's like, okay, how are we going to work through this? Right. But it being an intimate relationship, it is, it is different. And I want you guys to have expectation and boundaries. with whoever you're with in your life. Because that's important. The whole concept of unconditional love is kind of this fantasy.
You know, that people are like, Oh, you know, and I'm like, no, no, no. At least with my clients, I'm like, no. There's not some unconditional love with your partner. You have conditions. Right? And once you put, you know, that's clarified and you're in a safe relationship, you know, then you can go into the no matter what part and really trust and work on the, you know, interpersonal part of the relationship.
So, just kind of sharing that, but again, just, you know, going over that when you can have this kind of relationship where you're going to work on things, it does benefit your children and your household because everyone feels secure that we're a family and we're going to work through things together, even if it's a little uncomfortable.
You know even and it's not the again mean it's not that we don't have hard times Or we need space sometimes before we come back and talk if nothing is perfect by any means, but it's helped us Continue to grow and be that couple, you know that we want to be You know that we have today I would say You agree with that.
Anthony
I agree with that. Okay, so anyway, so Not a hot thought brick thought so the clean house. I look in is a lot I'm very not trying to compare it to it's a lot of time a lot of therapy work So, a lot of therapy work has come right back to the concept of clean house. So that you can be emotionally more present.
Julie
Right. Because if you don't, it's going to come up in your relationship. And just like, right, because if I didn't deal with my abandonment issues, it would just come into our relationship over and over again. So that was me cleaning house. Right? Correct. Okay. Alright. Well, I appreciate, You being here and it was fun introducing you to everybody.
I know I've talked about you enough and so now they kind of get an idea of your thoughts and how you see things and that that we hope again this has been helpful for you guys. So before I go, I just want to again thank you guys for being here. We hope this was helpful. Please share with anyone that you might, you know, feel the benefit from it.
You guys can find me on my website at MyCognitiveBehavioralTherapy. com. You can also find me on Instagram under my CBT podcast and Dr. Julie Osborne on Facebook. Please keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns, your questions. I love hearing from you, getting your feedback. Please hit the subscribe button to make sure you don't miss an episode.
And again, I have my merchandise where you can go get t shirts and coffee cups and all kinds of goodies with my mantra. Okay, this is my little bucket list. We can do it together….
Julie & Anthony
Make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.