Episode #89

Denial & CBT

Denial is something we all experience at times, especially in highly stressful or traumatic situations.

What is denial?

Can denial as a defense mechanism be positive?

How can you use Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, as I share with you the answers to these powerful questions.

Click to listen now!

Reference Guides:

Full Episode Transcript

Hi! This is Dr. Julie Osborn. Welcome to My CBT Podcast! I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker, specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your life.

I hope you're all doing well. And again, thank you for joining me. Before we get started, I wanted to bring you up to date on some things in my life and some experiences I've had recently. And then we'll move on with the podcast.

So I am taping this on August 20, which is actually my one year anniversary of being cancer free, which is a wonderful feeling. I'm very happy I got this far. I'm really feeling great.

For those of you that have listened to my journey with my cancer last year, I also mentioned that I had some issues with my leg after surgery where my nerve got pinched, and that seems to be back like a hundred percent. So I'm just thrilled. I'm thrilled about that. But I want to share the good news with you. But also wanted to share that because a couple of weeks ago, I was at a conference in Hawaii and I brought a bunch of my family with me.

It was a wonderful, wonderful trip. We're on the island of Kona, or really the Big Island, but we're in Kona. And one day I was just feeling really emotional. Nothing particular triggered me. And then I realized, and I shared this with my family in case I noticed something was off, was it was almost a year to my one year anniversary, but during that time last year, I also was in Hawaii at a different conference in Maui.

And after I got home is when everything kind of fell off the cliff, as my doctor would say. And I really had to fight to get health care services, I have insurance, but to get someone to help me was a fight, which, again, I talk about on one of my podcasts, if you want to listen to it. But it was really hard. I really had to advocate for myself and I realized why I was feeling so emotional and I was crying. It was just the circumstance of being back in Hawaii and my body remembering that I was sick then, and I had to really fight to get some help and it just kind of came over me.

So I just wanted to share that with you because I think most times people say, what triggered you? What happened? Why are you upset? Sometimes. As in my podcast with Dr.

Victoria Smith. CBT and no Psychology. Which is a great podcast. Great interview. I really hope you guys listen to that because it explains so much about our brain and anxiety.

Is that it's not always a situation specific where you can put a thought to it. But sometimes my Amygdala was going off as we talked about. And it was just being remembering what a difficult time that was. And it just brought tears to my eyes. So I just kind of share with my family.

I said it might be too much information, but I'm just feeling really emotional today knowing I was really struggling a year past. So sometimes things hit us and we don't even know that it's coming. It kind of takes us off guard. But just be compassionate, patient with yourself, empathetic and just let yourself feel that. I just walked away.

I took a moment and I just gave myself some self love and self compassion and just told myself, it's okay, this is normal and it's good that I'm feeling. And of course it brought me back to my gratitude. I also got emotional there one day I was snorkeling and just thinking about how grateful I was that I was there snorkeling again. I mean, a year ago I didn't know what was going to happen. It was life or death at the beginning of this whole thing and we didn't know what the outcome would be.

And just to be back into my happy place and to be snorkeling, it was such a gift and I didn't tell myself to don't be upset, don't be emotional, or I just said, you know what, that's where I'm at. I'm glad that I always stay grateful. I try to stay as present as I can in my life and just be thankful for every moment and all the experiences that I've been able to have since I got sick and since I've healed. So it's kind of want to share that with you because I know I am not the only one that goes through difficult things and sometimes we get upset and we just can't really put our finger on what's going on. And I know my podcast talks about your thoughts, your thoughts, your thoughts and your feelings.

And I'm always asking people, what are you thinking? What's the situation? And although that most of the time that can be something that works and be very helpful, sometimes the feelings just come on because of the circumstance and what memories might be coming back to us. And sometimes our body remembers even though we don't think we're thinking about anything. So again, the good news is I have a year cancer free and I just want to keep going forward and I'm really thriving and doing great.

All of your support along the way has been fabulous. I want to thank you guys again for that and just kind of bring you up to date and I just wanted to share that experience because it's always good when we hear other people's experiences and say, oh wow, I can really relate to that. And that's what I went through. I wasn't sure why I was upset. So I hope this resonates or if you have someone in your life that has survived cancer or any illness or trauma or whatever might be going on, it's good for you to also maybe be mindful that an anniversary is coming up or some place you're going to might remind that person and just maybe check in with them.

Just say, hey, you're doing okay? Because I know this is maybe an anniversary or this is where we were when this particular situation happened, so it's okay to bring it up. You're not going to put any thoughts in that person's head. Whether they're going to be upset or they're not will be based on their own feelings and their circumstances and how they relate to things. So it's good as a person in their life that loves and cares about them to bring it up and just let them know that you're aware of that because that's a very loving and supportive thing to do as well.

So it can help all of us just to talk about it, right? All right, so moving on. Today's podcast is based on an email I received. Again, I always encourage you guys to send me emails if you have ideas or things you want me to talk about, and I will be sharing this one. I'm going to be keeping the person's name confidential.

But they did write to me and they said, hey, Doctor Osborne, I've been listening to your podcast for roughly a year now after being given your name by a friend. I thoroughly enjoy your program and feel like, you know, my personality struggles and issues very well, even though we have never met. Generally when you list tendencies from anger, depression to PTSD, I score up perfectly. I'm working through some personal issues and really think your podcast are helping me a lot. I want to say one of my bigger issues is denial, which I don't think you have done a program on.

Wanted to reach out and see if that is something you could touch on soon. Happy to go into more detail as well, if you'd like. Thank you. So you know who you are. Thank you for reaching out.

Thank you for sharing this. And I thought, you know what? This is a great topic to talk about. Denial is one of the defense mechanisms, and I think we've all been in denial about something big, small in between, or have been with people in our lives who we feel that they are in denial. So let's talk about that more and understand what we're talking about.

And this definitely hit accord with me, which I will share a little later in the podcast on how denials played a role in my life as well. So let's first talk about what is denial? Right? So the definition is that it's said to be a way of refusing to accept or believe something or a statement to contradict someone or something. So denial is just we're refusing to accept or believe that something is true in our lives.

Right? And as I said a minute ago, it is one of the defense mechanisms and it helps us to avoid some type of anxiety that we don't want to feel, or we may just feel like we can't even handle and think about defense mechanisms as strategies that you can use to actually help cope with distressing feelings or situations. So there is a point to them. I know defense mechanisms doesn't sound very positive, right? You're defending yourself.

A mechanism is a way of walking through something, but it doesn't sound very like healthy, but it has its place. So sure, denial can be negative, but it can also be positive because again, sometimes what we're going through is too much for us to process and having some denial actually can help us cope. So it's definitely, as I say, shades of gray, right? It's not black or white. And if we are in denial of something, we're acknowledging that the reality of what's going on is too much or we're denying maybe the possible consequences, right?

So what would that look like? So say someone is an alcoholic, right? They don't want to admit that they're an alcoholic because what is maybe some of the consequences that I can't drink any longer if I decide to get sober because I'm an alcoholic and I'll start all over again. Other consequences are having to think about or really look at maybe how it affected people in my life. So that's a way of using the denial because I don't want to think about the consequences, right?

And I'm not going to owe my reality because it's just too painful and maybe I'm not ready to change and I can't even imagine how to do that. So that's another reason sometimes people are in denial. So as I was saying earlier as well, denial is definitely natural for all of us. So it really is normal and all defense mechanisms are normal, let me say that. So denial is a normal behavior that does help us cope at moments.

The problem is when it's long term as our way of coping, right? We just deny everything. We deny our responsibility, we deny we said something, we deny we promised something. So when it's long term, that's when it can really be a problem.

So let's talk about when it can be helpful. So it can be helpful to protect you in the initial stages of being shocked about something, going through trauma, different lessons, maybe that you're dealing with in your life, different losses and fearful situations. It's also a way to protect yourself from any emotional security that you're dealing with. So this is where I'm going to share about my experience with denial and how it played a role in my life for sure, until I went to therapy and figured it out, because I didn't realize it on my own. But I have a podcast called Core Beliefs, so if you listen to that, you're going to hear my story a little bit more today.

If not, that's a really good podcast you can listen to as well. It talks about these underlying beliefs that we walk around with and how it affects our lives. And denial played a role in my life. So when I was eight, my parents divorced and I stayed with my dad, and my mom left the state we lived in, and she never came back. She was in my life.

I would see her once a year over the summer break, and then I was with my dad the rest of the time. So I was definitely in denial about how much it affected me. Right. I definitely have selective amnesia, so there's lots of things I don't remember, and even when I'm told, they don't come back to my memory. So I'm like, oh, yeah.

I'm like, really? I don't remember that at all. I remember the last joyful thing I did with my mom before she left, and we spent this whole day together, got my ears pierced, we rode our bikes, we went to a sub shop. I mean, that is how good I can remember that day, but I don't remember much more than that. And I don't remember the day she left and I found out that actually was in the car with her when we took her to the airport.

So I just don't remember. And that was my denial, because that was my trauma. And it was too much as an eight year old little girl to process that my mother was leaving. That was just, you know, that was way too much. So I didn't deny obviously she was gone.

I couldn't deny that she wasn't there, but I denied how much it affected me. So my father, who is a really smart man, went to school and told all of our teachers of what was happening, and then our mom left, and that might affect us in school and just wanted the teachers to be aware of it. And this is something else. It's funny what you remember so specifically, but I had a fourth grade teacher named Mrs. Richard.

Really great lady. She took me out in the hallway. She said, Julie, I heard your mom left, and I understand this really hard time, and I can understand if you're struggling with school or anything. And basically was saying that she'd be there for me. And I remember I was offended that I was like, what?

Oh, no, I'm fine. This isn't going to affect me. Thanks, but no thanks. And I remember that conversation being in the hallway, and that was my way, that was my denial to cope with what was going on. Again, it was just too much to take in and process and deal with what was my life to be now without having my mom around all the time.

And we were very close, very close. So the rug really got pulled out from all of our feet. I have a brother and sister and kind of quote I guess moved on. I did have a really great childhood. I had a lot of friends, very social, a lot of fun, and I talk more in my Core Belief podcast, which again, if you want to listen to, I'm not going to go through my whole story, but my denial of not dealing with my feelings and my abandonments just let you really poor choices and relationships until I went to therapy.

And my therapist just kept pushing me when I kept even saying to her, and now I'm in my twenty s and I'm like, oh no, I was fine, I was fine. I would tell other adults they met like, oh yeah, this happened. And people were like, your mother left. They were eight years old. And I'd be like, oh, I was fine, I was fine.

That's all I ever said was fine. My life was pretty normal. Like I said, I was happy. I had great friends. My dad was a great dad.

I got to see my mom once a year. I just did not understand the enormity of how it affected my life in so many ways. So I'm not angry that I was in denial and I'm not upset with myself because I understand that is the way that I was able to cope and actually still have a normal childhood. It was a pretty happy kid, you know, normal stuff, but pretty happy kid. So I see again these defense me like, wow, they can really help us move through a difficult situation.

So that's something to maybe think about for yourself. Like, is there something I'm in denial? Is there something I went through? And I've always just said, I'm fine, I'm fine, and never really taken the time to understand the enormity of what you went through, whatever it might be, there's no judgment here. Whatever was difficult for you is difficult for you.

It's not not comparing my trauma to your trauma or anybody else's trauma. If it was traumatic for you, if it was a huge loss, right? If it was scary, I mean, it was all of those things for me. And then when I went to my therapist and she kept pushing me and pushing me and pushing me week after week saying, this must have really affected you, such a young kid. And I finally had like an AHA moment with her, thank goodness, and then be able to finally grieve.

I really never grieved my mom leaving and be able to cry and work through that and start making some positive changes and start having better relationships and it was all wrapped around that. It was all wrapped around that. So it's not about pushing someone. Like, you need to deal with this now. You have to understand, we're all ready when we're ready.

And I have a lot of clients that will come into session. They're like, oh, I wish I came in 20 years ago. And I say, you probably weren't ready 20 years ago. You're ready now, and that's all that matters. So let's work on it now and let's make the changes that are going to be helpful for you.

So that's a way of denial being a way of protecting your emotional security when it's been threatened and it's just too much to deal with. You can also be in denial of the facts of something. Right? You can be in denial of the impact that it has on yourself. Like what I always told everybody, I'll be fine, or the impact it has on other people because it's really hard to face the fact that you've heard others.

So it's easier to be in denial. Right. For example, a lot of my clients that I work with that are very depressed, they don't see how their depression affects everyone in their life. They just think, well, I'm the one that's depressed. Everyone else is fine.

They're getting out with their life. And I think it would make them feel too guilty. Not that I want them to, to think about what is the impact it has on others. So instead, it's more comfortable to be in denial and not really think that it's affecting other people. And sometimes when you do make bad choices, denial is a way of you not being accountable.

That wasn't my fault. What I'm doing doesn't affect you. I'm the one drinking you're now, what's your problem? Right? For example, so denial can show itself in many different ways in your life.

So when someone is in denial, what are you looking for? You may notice within yourself or someone else that they avoid or minimize again their behavior and what they're doing. They refuse to accept help, possibly, or downplay the consequences. So maybe a family intervention is done with somebody who's having alcohol or drug problems and they refuse to help, right? I'm fine.

What are you talking about? I don't need to go into a program where they talk about, say, a family intervention talks. Everybody's sharing how their behavior, the alcoholic, addict is affecting their lives, how much they care about them, and that person will downplay the consequences. They're in denial of how big the problem is because to really start fixing things just may seem overwhelming and that they can't process and cope at that time. So it's easier to just be in denial and then everybody kind of has to hit their own bottom, right?

Whatever that might look like. If you're in denial, you may experience feelings of isolation, you may feel anxious, you might feel sadness. And the more long term you are in denial, you most likely will start to feel really stuck in your life and think that you're never going to be able to work through your issues because it's been going on so long. So none of that is true because it's never too late to work on your issues. But ask yourself, are you feeling isolated?

Are you anxious? Are you sad? Is there something that you're not being honest with yourself? A lot of times when we work with our anxiety and really get to the bottom of it, a lot of times we're angry and we are sad and we're not expressing those feelings. So instead it comes out as anxiety or being in denial, right?

Because if I share that I'm angry with somebody, maybe they won't be able to hear that in a way I need them to. Maybe they'll be angry with me, maybe they'll abandon me, right? So I'm just going to be in denial about how I feel and just maybe deal with this anxiety or sadness, but stand in aisle of what I really need for myself because I'm afraid of how other people are going to hear that or they won't be there for me and then what, right? So that's just kind of an example to kind of think about. Is there other things going on that I'm not being honest with myself about?

If you know somebody else that's in denial, it's normally easy for us to point out other people's issues versus our own. So if we can say, oh, they're in denial, oh yeah, they're in denial, they're not dealing with their life. Is there anything about my life that maybe people have said to me, I think you're in denial about how much that's affecting you? Maybe I need to take some time to think about that. I don't have to agree with it right away, but let me just kind of take that in and think about it.

Other signs that you might be in denial is you justify your behavior. I'm stressed out, I need a drink, or you know, eating makes me feel better. It's comforting. I work hard, I deserve a cookie. For somebody that maybe has a food addiction, you're going to justify your behavior.

You're going to blame others for causing your problem. That someone in denial rights everybody else's fault. And you know what, I've said this many times to you guys that blamers don't change because it's not their fault, right? It's someone else's fault. You also will continue with the negative behaviors because you're in denial.

So I just kept dating people that were not healthy for me because I was in denial and didn't understand how my denial was affecting my behavior, my feelings and my choices and all of those things in my life. So even despite the negative consequences I felt I continued with my same behaviors, even with the negative consequences of overeating drug addiction. Maybe being someone that lies a lot, whatever that might be, you continue it even though there's consequences that's being in denial. Because you know what? Denial, it's unconscious.

We don't sit there and say, well, I'm just going to be in denial about this. It is unconscious. And again, you can often see it in other people. So you want to say, can I see it in myself. What?

Are there some other behaviors that can be in denial? Any addictions? People being on the phone all the time, oh, no, I'm just playing a game. I just played a little bit here or there. Probably not true.

You could be addicted to checking your emails. I mean, there's a million addictions out there, right? So if you don't see that it's affecting your life and if others bring it to your attention, you're in denial. So these are some just points I wanted to be able to be specific with to help you identify. All right, is this something that I am dealing with?

So for my email that I received, the person did say, I can go into more detail if you want, but when he was saying that one of his bigger issues is denial, that maybe he's starting to see that he's not taking responsibility or people are pointing that out to him. I'm just taking some guesses here because the person wasn't super specific, but it was a great topic to address. So again, if you think you're in denial and you're having a hard time seeing that, asking yourself the questions, am I justifying whatever behavior, am I blaming others? Am I continuing behaviors that have negative consequences?

Why is it that I'm not wanting to see if somebody shares with you? Like, this is really bothering me. That every time we're together, you're on your phone playing a game instead of being present with me, and it happens over and over and over, and you're always defending yourself. Maybe you need to stop and say, okay, maybe this is a problem. Why aren't I being present with these friends of mine or with my loved ones?

I have a lot of people complain to me about that, that I'm always on my phone or that I'm always focused on wherever we're going to go, we have a drink, right? Or whatever behavior it is that's causing a problem. So I know I keep talking I'm giving you examples with addictions because it just comes to mind. But look at my own experience. If you see somebody, why do you keep picking people that aren't available to you?

Why do you keep picking unhealthy relationships?

That's something you could bring up either to yourself, right, or somebody you love. Maybe you're in denial of some other pain or something that you haven't processed yet. So if you're struggling with this, that's a great time to reach out and see a professional, find a therapist and just say, I think I might be in denial, but I just don't know how to get there. I know how to figure it out and be able to help a professional walk you through that and then get to whatever it is that you need to deal with. So you're not using denial as a negative way, but also embrace it and say, like, at the time, I am grateful for denial.

Because, again, it allowed me to have a pretty happy childhood. When I look back, of course I missed my mother, but I have a lot of happy memories in my childhood after she left as well. A lot of them are visiting her. We had a lot of fun coming out here to California. I'm from back east, so she came out, she ended up out here in California, and we had a lot of fun.

You know, those memories, have fun memories with my friends, with my dad, with my siblings, you know, so I'm grateful because what would you know if I think, how else would my life be if I didn't get help? I could have just been a really depressed, anxious child and teenager. And even though I might have been underneath sad and some anxiety and insecurities, it didn't come to the surface enough to get in the way. So again, it served its purpose until it didn't. And it took me a little while to get the help I needed, but I finally did.

So it'll come up surface, you'll hit your bottom at some point and be present with it and just say, okay, now I guess I'm ready to deal with it. The consequences are big enough in my life or I'm unhappy enough, or I don't want to be anxious anymore or sad, and I want to do something about it. So I hope this got you thinking. Again, I appreciate the email. I really encourage you guys to send me your emails.

It gives me lots of different ideas. I want to be able to address issues that are important to you. And of course, always using my CBT tools. I didn't get specific, but there's so many tools just in this podcast that help me on a daily basis as well as looking back in my life. And I can see at the time with my therapy how they helped me get to the underlying issues and address my core belief.

And my strategy back then was to be in denial. So once I was able to kind of, you know, crush that and get to the real issues, I was able to turn things around and be able to create a much happier life for myself and a happy marriage. So being aware of how I'm feeling allows me to start thinking, what am I thinking about? Why do I stay in this unhealthy relationship? Because I'm afraid to be alone.

Because I think this person isn't great, but I can change them if I stay longer, whatever those thoughts might be. And if they're like, you know, that doesn't sound too healthy, I think I need to go get some help. Be aware always of what am I thinking about? If I'm having negative moods, what are my thoughts that are creating those moods, and what are the behaviors I'm doing that might be perpetuating? Or what are the behaviors that I'm doing regarding sleeping all.

Day? Food, sex, drugs, alcohol, shopping? What are my behaviors avoiding so I don't have to deal with those feelings and really deal with the consequences of what's going on in my life? That's all the cognitive behavioral therapy, remember? Right.

It's your thoughts which creates your moods, which affects your behaviors, your physical reactions. And then your environment is a huge factor of what's going on in my life that's causing all of this to happen. And then there's, of course, lots and lots more tools we can use.

So I hope this was helpful. Again, thanks for being with me today. I would love you to continue to email me with feedback, how the podcast is helping you, and any particular episodes you would like me to address. I can always redo certain episodes if you want me to get more detailed about things or whatever. It's up to you.

Just shout out. And if you enjoyed this episode, please hit the Subscribe button so you never miss another episode.

I really, really appreciate on Apple if you guys can leave me a review. I've gotten some new ones recently, which I'm really grateful for. It just helps to get out to more people.

My goal here is to reach as many people as I can and teach you guys CBT tools to help you have a happier and more fulfilling life.

So you can reach me at mycbtpodcast@gmail.com

I'm on Instagram at MyCBTPodcast

Facebook - I'm under Dr. Julie Osborn

And my website is mycognitivebehaviouraltherapy.com.

I love to hear from you guys, so be well.

And remember to make decisions based on what is best for you and how you feel.