Episode #160

The Endless Break-Up & CBT

A lot of relationships don’t last and the breakup can make you feel bad in many ways.

What is an ‘endless break-up’?

What is the situation with relationships today?

What does a ‘good’ break-up look like?

Join me, Dr Julie, as we analyze modern relationships and identify CBT tools that can help you have healthier, more fulfilling relationships.

Click to listen now!

 
 

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, it's Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

I hope everybody's doing well, and as always, thanks for joining me. I wanted to first share with you a really nice email that I received from a listener.

It says,

“Hello, Dr. Osborn,

“I've been searching and reaching out for some help after years of being stressed, anxious, and depressed. And I came across your podcast. I've never, and I mean never, bothered with audiobooks or podcasts. In my head, I was telling myself, there's nothing these things are going to tell me that I don't already know. I know what is holding me down. I already know how mentally trapped I feel. I need help with what to do about it. I need help coping with it, what to do to control these feelings and thoughts. I can keep on going and going, but I really just wanted to say your podcasts are helping me. At the beginning, I had to stop a couple of times because your sections really hit home.

“It was like you were reading my life and I couldn't listen anymore at that moment. I would either start crying or get anxious because of what you were saying. I'm really intrigued, interested, curious, along with many other feelings about CBT. I love it. It really helps just listening to your podcast, and I feel like I want to help others. I get really emotional just thinking about helping others that are going through similar situations. I'll stop for now. You must get many emails about listeners thanking you. I hope to hear back from you. For now, just know you're making a difference in my life.”

So thank you again to my listener for sending that. And again, I always encourage you guys to reach out, send me emails, let me know how the podcast are helping, if you have any suggestions on topics you want me to talk about or questions I can answer. And I just shared back with this listener, How much I appreciate it, and that it takes a lot of courage and resilience for you guys to continue to work on yourself and to keep looking for answers and tools when you don't think that there's anything else out there.

You guys all know I believe that CBT can really help all of us. And I love that he wanted to help others and share this with others. I know that we can share our stories and be connected to others who are going through similar experiences. It can be very healing, right? For others to be like, Oh, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, or, I went through that before, too. You got through it? What helped you? That stuff. So sharing, and I've always told you guys, too, once you master the CBT tools, you'll be able to use those in your life with other people and be able to communicate, be closer, and also help them, people that you care about that are struggling to help them figure out, Well, what are you thinking that's making you feel so depressed and anxious? So you'll become a master of this yourself and be able to spread it around, which is really what I want to do here. Why I'm doing it with you guys is to spread it out into the world so people can have these tools for the rest of their lives and be able to use them to make a difference.

So again, I love that email. I wanted to share with you. So today, I want to talk about a topic that I talk about a lot with my clients, and I think it'll be really interesting to a lot of you, whether it's you personally or maybe somebody you know. And And I want to talk about what we call the endless breakup and how to handle a breakup and what does a good breakup look like. So I know I talked to you guys about how you can build your relationships, but not all of them last. And how do we handle that, right? I think a lot of people don't really talk about that. I think people talk about how sad the breakup was or what the breakup looked like and what it left you with. But what does a good one look like? And I want to first talk about what relationships look like today way because of all the Internet technology. Very different than when I was out there dating because this wasn't an option for me. And I've learned a lot from my clients about what it is like to date on the Internet with all the dating apps.

And I know it can be exhausting and frustrating. There's a lot of success stories. I know many people that met their soulmate that way, and many people that have just not had that luck but left it exhausted and frustrated. And it's really hard. It's really hard. There's all different terms I always learn all the time. And I'll talk about a couple of those just to start with, from people from ghosting you to orbiting to submarining. Technology keeps elaborating new ways for people to avoid that emotional breakup in person that we've done for decades. It's very It's different when you do it online, but it only keeps us stuck in anxiety and self-doubts because we don't always get all the answers that we want. So just to give credit where credit's due, I first started reading about this in an Old Psychology Today magazine, an old edition, I want to say, that talked about the endless breakup. And what they mean by the endless breakup is because it's online, it's not definitive because somebody might ghost you, right? Meaning you just never hear from them again, which is so horrible. And disrespectful. And so like, Oh, what happened?

Did something happen? Is it about me? Do they not like me anymore? Or the orbiting means like you'll see they'll like something on your social media, right? Or you'll see that they're still following you. So orbiting me, it's like, Oh, they're still out there. Does that mean something? Do they still like me? So it's really sad for the person that's not wanting to move on. They'll find little tidbits to hold on to, but it just makes you feel desperate and sad sad and anxious. I hear this from clients come in all the time. What do you think? This is what happened. What do you think? Oh, they're still following me. I don't think they're following me. They started to follow me again. They like my picture, right? Or then you end up seeing stuff on their social media that gives you a whole story in your head that we don't even know if it's true or not. So it's a really tough landscape to maneuver. And I really empathize with all of you that are looking for someone. I think the apps are really smart, meaning that life is busy. People don't go meet people at bars like they used to, right?

Not that you can't, but life is just busy and people are working and moving and just many, many reasons why being able to meet somebody that maybe you wouldn't meet on your own. And the apps, I think, can help you find someone with your specific desires. Not that everybody reads your bio. I've learned that also. They'll just see if you're attractive and click on it and people are like, I don't even think they read my bio because nothing between me and this person even connects. But sometimes it does work. Sometimes it does work in a busy world. I've also found working with my clients that People are slowly moving away from the apps, and they're wanting to have more face-to-face connection and meeting people more organically in that way. So it's interesting how things are changing and what people have learned. But going back to what I was saying with orbiting, it's this long half-life of distance, getting a little bit of attention, and it keeps you hanging on to the hope of rekindling the romance. And that's why it can be so damaging for the person that doesn't want to let go. Over and over, and it's increasing more, men and women find themselves stuck in this virtual spider, if you want to call it, of contact, meaning the spider web really of all these different ways of connecting with people.

And then your ex lingers on electronically because you can see what's going on with their lives or what isn't going on, that type of thing. And I just think it makes it really hard. I always tell my clients, When you end a relationship, just end it. You need to move on. Don't make phone calls. I know it's going to be hard. You need to let that feeling pass. Go take walk, call a friend, do something different. Because every time you reach out to a relationship that's over and you know it really isn't even good for you, it just sets you back a few steps. So being on the internet and seeing things in that person's life just keeps it easier to hold on, which isn't healthy for you. And then, like I said, there's these little signals that in case they liked your picture, you're going to just run with that because you want to. And it just makes it harder to move forward. And it really just fuels people's levels of anxiety because I see it all the time. And a lot of negative assumptions that people make, which is part of the things we talk about with CBT is addressing your negative assumptions, your catastrophic thinking, all the cognitive distortions that we have.

Because when we're left not really knowing what happened or we don't get the answers we're looking for, we tend to internalize it and really feel bad about ourselves. So something I found really interesting, which makes a lot of sense reading through the article that I mentioned was that the endings of your relationship really shape your whole memory of the entire experience. And it even determines how you think about the relationship itself. Having memories of your experience can really be colored in a negative way based on how you feel about how the relationship ended. Breakups, obviously, are going to be very emotional and difficult. But when you can end it in a healthy way, where you can communicate with the person and figure out what contributed to the ending of the relationship, it really allows you to grow and move towards finding lasting love and that emotional fulfillment in the future. And I've always said this, I have daughters. I've always told them, Every relationship you're in is an opportunity to learn what do you like in a partner, what don't you like, what do you need, what's most important to you. And I know that when you can have a healthy breakup and learn about what went wrong, that's just more information you can take going forward so that maybe the next person will be your person and you can find a good partner.

And it doesn't make you feel bad about yourself. You can make some positive meaning from this loss, and it can really be beneficial. So they say that through a lot of studies in this article, there's hard biological evidence that breakups present an opportunity for growth, like I was just saying, right? And rejection ricochets through a number of neural systems. At the same time, it stirs the emotional chaos of pain and loss and longing, resembling addiction. It also turns on higher-order brain networks that facilitate learning. The activity prepares people to adapt to the loss. I just wanted to share that quote in there that I thought that's really interesting with the research. You can see what's going on with your brain when you're going through loss and rejection and everything that gets stirred up when you're going through a breakup. And it is tough. I'm not saying It's easier. Like, just move on. It is difficult. So I want you to understand what are you going through, and we're going to get to what is a good breakup look like, right? And the research also shows that people who suffered the least emotional damage from a breakup were those who view the split as a chance for self-improvement, right?

So when you see it as an opportunity for self-improvement, you can always learn something new about your priorities and your values in a relationship. So you can use this moving on. And that's what's really important is we have to learn what are our values. I know I didn't really think about any of this when I was younger in date and I was just like, Oh, let me see who I'm going to meet. I wasn't really clear on what are my values, what do I want from a partner, what would that look like? And I share that with my clients all the time now because I've met a lot of people that have come in after one, or first, or second divorce. And they're like, I haven't really taken the time to figure out me, what do I want? I just went from one person to the next. You've probably heard this, a lot of people that get divorced, their second marriage actually resembles a lot of their first because they never really looked into it and said, What caused the break up. What part did I play? What part did the other person play? What do I need that needs to be different next time?

So then with the second divorce, and then they're like, Oh, my gosh, what is going on in my life? And then they'll come in for therapy, and we start talking about them and explore them and get more clarity. But a lot of people just don't take the time. I think they just want to get past the loss. It's easy just to blame the other person. I just need to get that person out of my life. Then I'll be okay. And they don't really take time to explore, and they just move on and just want to find another partner because they don't want to be alone. So if you can look like, Okay, this is painful. I was hoping this relationship was the one that was going to work out, but how can I use this as an opportunity to learn from it? And when I'm ready to be able to use it in finding a new partner, So going back a little bit with the breaking up online, which is just so horrible. So again, we've heard of ghosting, where the person just stops reaching out to you. It's a ghost. It's gone. They're gone, right?

And you figure out that the relationship is over because they don't answer your text, your calls, Snapchat for two weeks, for example. And the silence is the new norm or the new no, really, which is so horrible. And that doesn't give you an opportunity to talk through things and end it. And it really shows that the other person doesn't have the courage and integrity just to say, I'm going to end this relationship, which is another sign that you need to move on from this person, Ghosting, what I find, though, it really changes people, and it makes people more cautious about wanting to get into a new relationship because they think that if I invest in somebody, they're just going to ghost me again. So people become more guarded, and they make it harder, I should say, to trust others, which is really sad because those are some of the things that you need to be able to even allow yourself to make yourself vulnerable again, to get into a new relationship. So it can be really damaging. And if you're doing this to others, I really want you to think about it, and I want you to stop.

Don't ghost. If you're going to have the courage and the interest and the vulnerability to get into a relationship, you need to respect that person. And if you're not interested, that's fine. But let them know and don't let them hang. That's not how you would want to be treated. You know? And if you are breaking up with that person and be clear, don't go let their picture or say something about something because we know when someone doesn't want us to break up with them, right? And you need to understand that in the world of social media, somebody is going to hang on or grasp onto anything that you might send them, and you need to really respect and walk away if that's what you're choosing to do. So it might not be as hard for you if you're the one that ended the relationship, but you really need to respect the person that you ended things with. And if you're the person that's still longing for the relationship, when you see the photo of somebody online having a great time without you, I know you may feel like you no longer matter. And trying to keep up with someone allows you to continue to ruminate, obsess, and even maybe feeling regret.

And it doesn't feel good because you're just going to personalize and feel bad about you and maybe blame yourself instead of allowing yourself to process what went on, learn from it, and move forward. And then I want you to be in that position where you're decoding every little thing that you see What does that mean? Who are they with? Is that a new girlfriend? Why is his arm around her? Why is she with her? I see it. People come in my office like, Oh, my God, I've talked to you about this picture I saw, or I got this message. I'm not sure what to think about it. And it's just like, it just takes you back, takes you backwards, take you backwards. We have to walk through that. And most people, what they share with me is negative thoughts about themselves. Hot thoughts, lots of hot thoughts about what they see online with the ex. They may say nasty things about that person, but then it's all about them feeling bad about themselves. And you really deserve to move on and use your tools so you don't stay stuck. When you're having these breakups online, just to be honest, a lot of people don't have these really strong high skills to communicate, which is what you need when you're ending a relationship.

And especially if a lot of it's been online, people aren't talking to each other. They're just texting or the emojis like I was talking about before. So someone called it a soft breakup, which means you someone with a lot of unsaid information about the relationship and the real reason for the split and why it even happened. And having silence allows the partner who wants the relationship to continue to have hope that things will change. And the person that withdraws from relationship may be more certain that the relationship is over but doesn't say it. Often, out of the desire may be to avoid the person or having the messiness of the conflict. But the nature of the anxiety is the person not knowing the answers. That is what drives people crazy. I see it all the time. When people get dumped without learning why, they end up interpreting the rejection as a reflection of who they are and really negative thoughts, thinking that they must have done something because they're not a good person. The person walked away with no explanation because maybe I'm weak. Now I think I'm ugly. Now I think I'm worthless. And when you don't get a clear explanation, you tend to see the rejection as a sign of something deeply negative about you.

And that's why I'm saying that we really need to learn to communicate when we end a relationship. And they can carry this into future relationships and carry some baggage. You might bring this with you and like, Oh, I have a really hard time trusting people now because what happened with the last person. So now that new person doesn't have much of a chance with you because you already don't trust people because you're so afraid that it's going to happen again. And you put up these walls just to protect yourself, which makes sense, but it's just not healthy. And that's why we really want to use our CBT tool so you don't get into that cycle. Because then you just end up with this, you know, breakup after break up and not understanding that because it was happened to in the past, you're bringing that into the new relationships. And the stories you tell yourself can really influence what you feel about yourself, what you feel about other people, and about your future. And sadly enough, we're in a world that has declining empathy. And it's really shown, especially among young people, and text breakups happening because they're easier.

And if you can't recognize the humanity of others, you can't act with respect for their feelings. I want to repeat that. If you can't recognize the humanity of others, you can't act with respect for their feelings. You live people with questions. Am I good enough? Why do they want to be with me anymore? When people get scared to face the hurt they're going to cause by breaking up with someone. But people are hurt most when they don't understand. Having empathy and openness are really the essence of having that good breakup, that good ending. So it's important that we work on our empathy for each other and have that respect that when we're ready to end a relationship, that we're going to take the time to do it right. So what's a good ending look like? So let me first say that two people who cared for each other and themselves need to have an honest and kind explanation of what became unsatisfied in the relationship. So the greatest problem people struggle with in a breakup is the lack of closure, which is the need to fully understand what happened. So one of the first things you can do, and in the magazine, The Psychology Today, I referred to earlier, said you should have an exit interview, which I chuckled at because I think about that with work, right?

People get exit interviews, but I'm like, Oh, that's pretty cool for relationships. So what's an exit interview look like? We're going to talk about the relationship, explain what didn't work so we can move on and be able to respect each other. So the first thing you want to do is you want to think about what do you want to say in the conversation and really reflect on why you want to break up and what it is about you or your partners, maybe habits or your values that just didn't work for you. And how are you going to express this to them without making them feel bad about themselves? So it also takes some bravery to really be honest with yourself and end a relationship. There's always the possibility that the person you're getting close to won't return the feelings you have and have a change of heart. So don't expect the conversation to be easy because it is going to bring on some grief as well as relief, but maybe not for the other person. So just because you're feeling this way doesn't mean they're going to be feeling that way. So you do have to be brave and walk through this and know that it's going to be difficult.

You also want to plan ahead. When you ask them, I want to talk with you, don't go to your house or their house. Go somewhere maybe a little public because people tend to maintain their emotions a little better when no other people are around. We don't want to get into a screaming match. So somewhere that is a little comfortable to have this conversation and find out when a good time is so you both are not in a rush with the conversation. You both have time to really talk it through. And as I was mentioning earlier, you want to really engage with some empathy and just be kind knowing this might be hard for the person you're breaking up with, and they may be really sad. And not to get defensive, not to personalize that, and understanding dating and entering relationships, that this is one of the risks. It's that tough thing to balance is you need to be vulnerable to be in a relationship, but also put you at risk for getting hurt. But you can't do one without the other, right? Because when it does work, it's great, and that vulnerability is wonderful. So So empathy is, just to clarify with you guys, is the ability to understand someone else's feelings.

And it's important that you can hear from the other person what they're saying and just understand that you understand that it's very hard. And being mindful of the other partner's humanity helps you have more empathy and hear what they have to say. Even if it's hard to hear, or if they start insulting you or saying how you weren't good to them. If you can at least hear it and just say, I hear what you're saying, and maybe even finding a little bit of truth in it can really go a long way. Another thing you can do is let the other person know all the things that you do respect and admire about them and point that out, not just focusing on why you're ending the relationship. And explain why. Be honest, kind, calm, some compassion as you explain your view of what no longer works for you, whatever that is, so that the person can walk away and really have an understanding and not question or say why, why, or have a reason to come back and keep questioning. That happens a lot, too, right? So you want to be clear. You definitely want to avoid any put-downs.

You want to share just why your or breaking up and how this relationship doesn't meet your needs anymore and not putting the person down. Let me say, too, even if it's a casual relationship, if it's a friend's or benefits Friends with benefits. I'm sorry, that's what I wanted to say, that, yeah, we're not going to commit a relationship, or we maybe have just a sexual relationship, but now I'm going to end this because maybe you're getting into a serious relationship. That still deserves a conversation just because it's not something serious. Don't be like, Yeah, whatever. I'm not going to see anymore. And also ask for feedback. A lot of the person to give some information about maybe what you could have done better or how their behavior, or Their behavior affected, the relationship or how your behavior affected your relationship. Give them a chance to share so they're not just sitting there taking all this in and they don't feel like they get to say anything or that you're not interested because you're the one that's sending it. So have some space for them to give their feedback. End it with some generosity, just saying to them that you hope that they find someone in the future and they really deserve that.

And if you're the person that was broken up with or you did get ghosted and you never had this exit interview, write it out, journal. I'm going to talk in a minute about some more CBT tools to use, but don't just hold on and say, Oh, I got to find out. I got to hear it from them because you can't make anyone talk to you. You are powerless over people, places, and things, and you have to take that control back and say, Okay, I'm going to process this. This is maybe a good time to go to therapy so I can have somebody talk to me and give me some feedback on what they hear my story, what they think happened, and how I can process this and move on and let go. And the last thing I want to say is disconnect. As I mentioned before, you want to unfriend and block any social media. Do not torture yourself by giving yourself any space to see what is that person doing, what's going on, and making assumptions, because that is just going to hold you back and make you feel just worse and worse and worse.

Because any relationship can be really emotionally intense. I want to talk about how you can use your CBT tools to help navigate this process more clearly and help you get to the other side. Is they say. So what are some maybe hot thoughts that you're going to be having right after a breakup? I'll never find someone else. This is my fault. I'm unlovable. Those are your hot thoughts. If we're doing a thought record, we're identifying the hot thoughts, and And then we want to look for evidence, right? And ask yourself, how is this thought helping or hurting me? What would I say to a friend who thought this? If someone, your friend said, Oh, I'm unlovable. I'm never going to find someone else. What would you say to them? And Where's the evidence that you're unlovable? Because one human being didn't find you to be their perfect partner. I don't want to say perfect, but their long term partner, right? There's a lot of evidence you can come up against that. You also want to challenge your cognitive distortions. I'm assuming a lot of people are going to have catastrophic thoughts. Well, not assuming, I hear it all the time.

My life is ruined, all or nothing. If this relationship failed, I must be a failure. Personalizing it, that it's all my fault. There's lots of cognitive distortions, right? The fortune telling is the one that I'm never going to have a relationship. I'm never going to find that person. Lots of kinds of distortion that you really want to identify and start to challenge them so you can reframe these distortions. Why are you so upset about the pick up. I would say it's your awesome aspects of yourself that being in a relationship is important. You really wanted it to work. You felt like you did your best. Having love in your life is a value for you, and you're looking to have a committed relationship. That's why you're so upset, because these things are important to you, and that's how you can reframe by using your CBT tools. And you definitely want to build some emotional resistance. Don't go into some positive thinking and suppress your pain. You want to sit with the discomfort, even though I know that's difficult. But we want to sit with it so we can get through it. And you want to identify how you're feeling.

You're feeling sad, maybe anger, maybe guilty, feeling hopeless, feeling insecure. And then working through those feelings, understanding what are the thoughts, what are the hot thoughts they're creating for you. And because you feel worthless, it's not the same that I am worthless. That's really important to distinguish. I don't want you to feel worthless at all because another person broke up with you, but it doesn't mean that you are worthless. It's important to understand the difference. And you also want to develop healthy beliefs about the relationship, right? So the CBT regarding working on your core beliefs. You might have a core belief that I need someone to complete me, and you want to be able to change that, that I can be whole without a partner. Or maybe you have a core belief that being alone means it's your failure. And you want to remember and change that to that. Relationships are about mutual respect, not desperation or fear. So this is an opportunity, like I was talking about before, to really explore what are my core beliefs, because they're probably being triggered right now when somebody breaks up with you. Relationships bring up our baggage, and they definitely trigger our core beliefs.

But if you can, instead of like, Oh my God, I don't want to deal with this stuff. Like, Okay, here's my opportunity. I'm not dealing with it before, and this is what my relationship brings up. So if I can look at it and say, Okay, I can own this. I can be responsible. I need to work on some stuff. Working on myself, but also the questions of, Why did I pick this person? Are there things I did put up with? Because maybe I didn't feel worthy, right? Or I didn't think I was good enough, or I was afraid of being abandoned, so I just allowed a negative relationship to continue. I get excited thinking about this like, Oh, my God, look at all these opportunities to grow because of what this relationship brought up for you. It can really get you to the other side, and then you will attract that healthy person that you deserve, right? So after your breakup, it's really common to want to just isolate and ruminate, but instead you want to reduce any depression. You want to reconnect with your identity beyond the relationship. You want to build new routines and support networks.

Reach out to friends, Sometimes also we get into relationships and we let other relationships go. Friendships, oh, no, I'm busy with my boyfriend, girlfriend. I'm doing this. And obviously, you don't keep those friendships going, which is a no-no. But if you have, reach out to those support networks. Apologize that you didn't make more of an effort and you got caught up in a relationship and how important they are and you want to make an amends and you're looking for some support right now. Like I said, create new routines. And You never want your identity fully to be your relationship. It's just part of who you are. There's so many more aspects of you. So you want to be able to start changing those behaviors and don't isolate and just ruminate about everything. I got to really learn how to take something from this and pick out what I need to work and change. And again, that's really where a therapist can really help you see maybe what you're missing. And just having some healing affirmations is good. Reminding yourself, I should say, this pain is temporary. My thoughts do not define my future. You can mourn this loss and still move forward.

And letting yourself, and reminding yourself that you deserve relationships that nourish you, not drain you. I always say, relationship should be giving you more energy versus taking energy. If the relationship is so exhausting, it is not a relationship for you. You want to feel energy from the relationship you're in and feel good about yourself and build on your self your worth and your strengths and your values and all the awesome things about you. And if you're like, I really wasn't getting that in this relationship. And maybe this person will end up doing you a favor by ending it. So it's an opportunity for you to take some inventory of yourself and saying, What did go wrong here? How can I learn from this and how can I move on and what's healthy for me? And how can I use my CBT tools on a daily basis to continue working on myself. And if you're the one that's, again, ending a relationship, have enough empathy and integrity to do it with self-respect and respect for the other person. So you can feel good about how you're treating that person. And it's really how you're treating yourself, because I don't think you're going to feel good if you're ghosting someone and leaving them hanging.

It's just mean and inconsiderate. And that's not the person you want to be. I believe that. So I hope this was helpful. I hope it got you thinking a little differently about, we're always talking about keeping the relationships going. Sometimes they need to end, and that can be painful, but let's do it in the right way.

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