Episode #125

Conflicting Values & CBT

What if your child chooses different values to yours or the values you raised them with?

How can you love and support your child even when you’re struggling with their choice of values?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, as we talk about this challenging situation and share CBT tools that can help.

Click to listen now!

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, this is Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

So, as always, thank you for joining me. I hope everybody's doing well. And today, I know I usually start off with an email from Alyssa, which I am still going to do, but it's going to be actually the focus of my podcast because it was such a great question, and I think all of us will be able to relate to what I'm going to talk about today.

So my listener sent me a question saying,

‘Do I need my child to live my values in order for me to be happy when my child's values conflict with mine? What happens and what can I do about it to take care of myself while supporting them?’

And I was like, wow, that's a big question. That's an excellent question. And we can usually find commonalities with each other, relate issues with each other. So I'm going to give lots of different examples and obviously use our CBT tools to help us work through this and find some peace if you're struggling regarding your values and the values of your child. So again, there's so many different examples, and I'm sure you guys will think of some as I'm talking, I'm not even including, but just to get started is maybe your child's sexual orientation isn't what you expected or what you understand.

It could be find out your child gets a DUI. It could be find out your child has a drug or alcohol problem. Maybe your daughter gets pregnant unexpected, unplanned, they drop out of school, obviously religious differences, political differences. I know some stories where some parents have asked their children not to get tattoos. They really wanted them not understanding what they meant to them and what that was about.

So I'm sure. I think as I go on and talk, I'll probably be thinking of other examples that will come to mind. But I'm just giving you a little taste of what I'm thinking about regarding what are my values and what are the values that I passed on to my children. And maybe they're not going to be the same values when they became adults or when your kids become adults. Mine are adults already and take a different path, and how can I still love and support them even if I'm maybe struggling with that a little bit?

Right. So there's lots of different things you can do, but first you have to be mindful and be honest with yourself. Like, I'm really struggling with this. This doesn't follow my values, but I still love my child, of course, and I want to still have a relationship and connect with them and support them, but this is a tough one, right? And I don't want to push my kid away because I'm saying, well, that's not my value, and I'm being judgmental, and then that can just shut them down.

And they're like, well, I'm not going to share anything with my parents because they're just going to judge me and not even listen because they're so stuck on what their values are. So again, there's tons of shades of gray here, right? Not much black and white. We got to really look at the gray and find some common ground. So I would say where's the place to start?

Is just by, again, being honest. Like, you know what? I can be here for you. I want to be here for you, but I'm kind of struggling with this. This isn't the future I saw for you, or this isn't the future I saw for me, right.

What's that going to look like? Even a value of growing your family. So regarding the sexual orientation I meant mentioned is that maybe your child marries in a way that you're comfortable with, but a lot of adults these days are choosing not to have children. That could be another issue. Like, what do you mean you're not going to have children?

You're my only child now. I'm not going to have any grandchildren. Like, that's something I always hope for. So things are going to come up in our lives that we never planned for. We didn't know, or we're not here to control our children.

We're here to love them and support them and for all of us to have autonomy and for them to be their own person. And they may make decisions that are disappointing or go against your values, what you hope for. And we need to learn how to walk through that. So being honest is the first place. And it's okay that your values are now lining up with, maybe with the ones your kids have, but just want to at least be honest and be able to say, I'm kind of struggling with that, but no, let's see if we can work through that.

So another thing, obviously, to do is to listen to what your child has to say when they're sharing with you what's going on in their life or what's happened to them, instead of just kind of jumping the gun again, judging not really hearing them because you're getting triggered because this is so against the way you look at life or what maybe you would have done. You want to also show your perspective without trying to change their minds. As soon as people think we're trying to change their minds or the way they think or feel or what they value, they're just going to be on the defense because now you're trying to control them, and that's not having a relationship. So showing them this is my perspective. Why am I struggling with that and being humble enough to say maybe I am wrong, but right now I can't really get there and I maybe need some more time.

It's okay to ask them to least respect your beliefs, even if they are different. Right? And I know I'm talking a lot about how does a parent handle this, but if you're a kid that's like, whoo, I got to share something with my folks, or they're not going to be happy. Or maybe we have been struggling with something and we haven't known how to communicate, right. Is that we both have to definitely respect each other, and that's a good place to get started.

And when people respect each other, they're more open to hearing what the other person has to say. And then you might not think this is the best advice. But sometimes if it's not super important, you might just consider avoiding some topics altogether. Right. So we're just talking about how do I really address the really important ones and be able to still have a really good relationship.

We don't have to address every single value. We're not going to be exactly the same. That's what makes us individuals. So some things you might be like, you know, I can just kind of let that one go. But these other things I really want to talk through and get to a place where we can have a good relationship still.

So it's important for us not to expect our kids, or if you're a kid to a parent, that each of us are going to live by each other's values. We might, but there might be some differences, some life experiences we go through, the way we look at the world are going to be very different. So each of us want to be true to ourselves and our own values, and we want to be able to respect that in the other person as well, that they also want to be true to themselves and to their values. Right. And you want to remember that, especially if you're a kid looking at your parent, you want to remember that your parents values may have really served them well, gotten them through difficult things in life, created that support network that they needed, having other people in their lives that had the same values.

And this might be going on for decades. So you have to say, why should they change or accept anything new? Because they're like, this really works for me. Right, but why do they need to accept new? Because as parents, we all need to kind of roll with some of the changes and the way the world is.

And it's different. The world's different from how my parents grew up. The world's different from how I grew up towards my, you know, regarding my kids. So we have to be able to be open minded and hold our values, but also adjust to current times and the way people look at things and the way people are living their lives. Right?

And it's not that long ago. I mean, again, just my dad's generation was so different, how he grew up and how his community was compared to the community I grew up in. So things change. But instead of being just frustrated with each other, if we can have some perspective and insight and say, I understand, you know, what, that really worked for you, or that's all you had growing up was that community. Let's say we're talking about religion, right?

Like, back in the day, a lot of communities I know my dad, I grew up back in New York, and a lot of the communities regarding, based on your faith, your culture, you lived in little pockets in the neighborhood, and everybody was like, the same, right? And you fall with the other communities, and my dad would get chased home by other kids that weren't the know. Like, I didn't experience that growing. You know, there was this tight knit community he grew up know. My dad's parents, they came from Russia.

They spoke a different language in the house. I mean, that's just one generation back. I didn't have that growing. You know, it's just very different. We're much more open.

We didn't experience the same things in the same way. That helps us create who we are, right? And that's what's going to affect our values. So a lot of us can have core values, but then some things may change along the way. So I know sometimes, and I probably was guilty, too, when I was younger, being frustrated of maybe thinking, oh, my dad's kind of not open or not being able to see this or that.

But I had to take this perspective and understand where did he come from and why does he think that way, why that's his value. And how can I explain to him my value and how it's different, but that we can still talk about and have a relationship and support each other. So it's kind of finding some common ground. And one thing I always share with my clients, and I lived myself with this virtue of focusing on the similarities and not the differences. I think most of our world is very focused on the differences.

What's different, right? What do I look like? What do you look like? What do you believe? What I believe where if we could break it down and communicate better, we have a lot of similarities, and I think we probably have more similarities than differences, but we don't look for that.

We're like, oh, this is how I believe, and this is the way it is. And if you're not there, then you're not with me. And that's what makes everything so divisive and really splits families apart. Right. I think I've mentioned this in other podcasts, but sadly, I know way too many families where family members don't speak.

And I heard back in the day stories of my parents where people didn't speak to each other for years, and then they get back and they're like, what a waste that was. Why couldn't we talk through it? It wasn't important enough to lose all those years together. And it's just so common. It's so common.

So saying, okay, what is similar here with this struggle we're having? If I can listen to my kid and listen to their perspective, I can find an easier way of accepting it. And remember, acceptance doesn't even mean I like it, but I can accept it so that it just doesn't sit on my shoulders and I crave resentment. And it affects our relationships, because as a parent, you can't change your adult child, but you can choose to communicate openly without compromising your values. So it's not that I think people get fear is underlying so much of what I'm talking about.

Like, if I agree with them, then am I changing my values or do I have to be okay with it? And does that mean, again, I'm not honoring my values where it's like, no, this is my value and I can stick with it, but I can be open and I can accept yours, and that can be respectful. And in turn, you can respect your parents values as well and just understand a little bit more children's values that are different from yours if you're a parent is not a reflection or even an accurate measure of your success or your failure as a parent. I think that's somewhere people go to. I can share a personal story with my mother in law, may she rest in peace.

Me and my husband are different faiths. And when we got married, even before we got married, we went through a lot to make a decision. We wanted to have one faith household, and we decided to raise the kids. My faith. And when my husband went to share that with his parents, he went alone.

And at first, his mom felt like she failed him. And she said that, I feel like I failed you. And he said, it's really the opposite, mom, that you gave me that foundation that I'm always going to have and taught me how to be open and understanding and knowing other people's beliefs. And again, looking for the similarities and not the differences, and that it really was a compliment to her that he could be open and not just kind of stuck in his beliefs. And for us to be able to work that out throughout our marriage.

And I look back now and I think there was just a lot of fear of, like, what does that mean for her and my husband's family regarding holidays and things they celebrate? What does that mean for my grandkids? It was really important for my mother in law that my children had some faith. And it was like, I'm not sure what that looks like because there's a difference. And there was a great story to just share with you that I think things shifted for her when my daughter graduated from preschool.

Nowadays, it's a whole thing. They wear an outfit and little cap and gown, and we invited her to come to that, and it was super fun celebration. My daughter was, what, four years old, and when she saw that faith was a part of her life, I really saw a shift. And I think that fear left of, like, oh, okay. There is our similarity.

We might not believe everything the same, but what's similar is that she believed in God. We taught that to my daughter. We had that in our lives. We have that in our lives, and that there's our similarity, and that just brought some peace and everything was okay going forward. So that's just a great example of understanding that when we're fearful, which is a mood, right.

We want to say, okay, why am I afraid? I don't know what my thought is. I'm not sure what that's going to look like. Are my grandkids even going to have any faith? Is my son going to believe everything I taught him all these years?

What's that going to look like? Are we going to be able to have my grandkids over and celebrate our holidays and be with us? At special occasions, for sure. And then they could obviously be with us and celebrate special occasions as well. So that's just a really good example that there's lots and lots of interfaith couples out there that make it work and all of the families can celebrate however they choose to, but it doesn't have to be this or that.

So that was a success, right? That was a success when she may have thought it was a failure at first. And definitely keeping communication open with your adult children. As their parents, you always want to encourage and support your child, however old they are, while also providing advice, guidance and wisdom. Sometimes they don't want to hear it, but just sharing it, something might stick.

You can still do that. You can still support them and give them some guidance and wisdom when you guys are going through this struggle and they may listen, they may take it in, they may come back to it in five years, but you can still do that. It doesn't have to be like, oh, I can't say anything now because we don't agree. I can still share what my thoughts are and give a little advice if they're open, but in a loving and supportive way.

The core value is that they're your children and you always want to remember that and you always want to take that initiative and don't give up. Don't give up. It may be a struggle. You might feel like you're walking through mud, but sometimes we just need space when we first learn something, right, and not be so reactive. And then we can get to that place we want to be.

There's a million stories, too. And I mentioned about someone getting unplanned pregnancy. It's upsetting and maybe distressing. It's like, oh, my gosh, what are we going to do? And then they have the baby and everybody's just loving the baby.

Everybody's loving the baby. Nobody's thinking about so much about, oh, this wasn't planned. You shouldn't have. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, whatever. And everybody's just loving this new child in their family.

So at first it was like, oh, gosh, this is not good. This is going to disrupt things. And then the love comes out, right? So whether it's happened to you or not, I think you probably know somebody in your life where you can see that story playing itself out. And sometimes things just take time to kind of fall into place and finding those similarities.

So everybody has different views of the world, and it's really normal that each generation has different views of the world again, because we've gone through different things and based on your own life experiences which create your core beliefs, is going to be connected to your values and everybody's, you know, there's so many incredible stories out there. And that's one reason I love being a therapist. I'm, like, so curious and so interested in people's stories and understanding how did they get to be the way they are or their situation? That sometimes I ask a lot of questions, but I'll ask questions and be like, oh, that's a good question. And I can see I'm making them think, like, how did I get to this place?

Or why did I make that decision? And every little thing counts. Every little question I ask I think counts because sometimes it takes us down a different path that is really, really helpful and helping people understand, what are your values? I think in general we would, oh, I know what my values are. But when you ask somebody, sometimes it's hard to really come up with, what is that?

What are my values? And one way you can really share your values, I think with your kids so that they can be open to them at any age, is sharing those life stories that developed your values. It's probably the best way to explain yourself to your child instead of saying, well, they're just my values because I say so. And the family values, and it's just how we always did it. And you need to do it, too, right?

That ain't going too far. But when you share your life stories and it's like, this is what I experienced, this is what I went through, things that happened in my family, maybe traumas, going through divorces, dealing with drug and alcohol addiction, feeling abandoned in your family, not heard. All of those things are going to affect how you are today and what's really important to you. And when you can share your stories, people are way more open to hearing versus you just telling them how you think they should be. And at the end of the day, you can always agree to disagree.

You don't have to be okay. Or say, oh, okay, go ahead, whatever you decide to do. And I'm not going to say anything. It's okay to say, I'm going to agree to disagree. But we can still have some peace and we can still have that relationship, because what's most important at the end of the day is the relationship.

And like I said at the beginning, we got to look at the shades of gray here and where we can come together again. Focusing on the similarities instead of the differences on each situation can be a starting point. If you're not sure where to go. So some questions to ask yourselves. Going back to using your CBT tools, when you find out about something that's really bothering you is why is this bothering me?

And answer that and you're going to get some of your hot thoughts, maybe some facts, but probably some hot thoughts, right? What don't you like about it? What value do you feel was violated or even challenged? And why does it matter to you? And if you can really take time to think about these questions and answer them and share that with your child that you're struggling with, I think it'll come from a much more loving place instead of an angry, fearful place, which is usually the first reaction.

And when it comes from love, people are much more open to it. Even if they say, I'm still going to make these decisions for myself, right. That at least my parents, you know, what took the time and really thought about it, and it was really heartfelt and humbled and I can respect that. But I'm also going to go forward and make my own decisions. One of the questions, or within the question that my listener wrote, it is said saying that when his child's values conflict with his again, what happened?

So I hope I've kind of covered that. And what can I do to take care of myself while I support them? So I want to answer that for sure. I don't want to miss that question on what can I do to support and take care of myself as I support them. So what I would say is to find your own support group, to find others that do carry the same values as you so they can definitely relate to you.

But also if you can find some people in a support system where they've also gone through some struggles with their kids and they can share their stories with you and where you can find some success stories for other people and do what makes you feel good, whatever those values are, whatever is important to you. Be grounded, give yourself some grace. Like, you know what? Wow, this is really important to me. It's never been challenged before.

Some people have kids that are like just really easy kids and then all of a sudden they grow up or they meet somebody or they maybe even get into a different field in their career and it kind of opens up their eyes and they're know, this is important to me. I can tell you, as I told you guys, things will come to my mind as I talk and I share personal stuff. But my one daughter, Molly, when she was eight years old, decided she didn't want to eat meat anymore. It's always been animal lover and did it for that reason. Not because she didn't want to eat chicken nuggets anymore, but she didn't want to eat animals.

So at that time, she was a pescatarian, or she became a pescatarian. I would say I was able to get her to do that. I was just not as educated as I am now. I want to make sure she had enough protein growing up and yada, yada, yada. But I respected that.

And then she became vegan years later. But I got to tell you, there were a lot of her friends that would go home and be like, oh, I want to be pescatarian like Molly. And I got to tell you the story that most of their parents are like, no, we're all eating the same. I'm not making two different meals for people. This is what we're doing.

And as a kid, you don't have a lot of control over that. I understand. But I was like, okay, wow, my kids ate. And she's making a decision like this, that's a value that she's sharing with us and she's really respecting and honoring herself. So it wasn't too hard for me and my husband.

So I'm like, yeah, I'm going to definitely respect that. I never complained or like, oh, I wish you beat in this. Or, oh, it'd be easy, or don't you miss this? I was just like, okay, if that is that important to you at eight years old, and you can make that decision without blinking an eye. And that's how she was.

That's what she did, because that was her value. So it's not that I valued eating meat, right? But it's that she brought up a new value to me that wasn't ever a part of my life. I didn't grow up with any particular diet. I don't know.

I want to say, I don't want to call it a restriction when you're pescatarian, but, or vegan, but differences, like, we definitely don't need this. We definitely don't need that. That's a value people have, right? A lot of people have different diet values at their certain foods. A lot of people don't eat pork, for example.

So that's a value they have. And I'm going to respect that value of whose ever it is. And I definitely did with my daughter, and we made it work and it was great. And I felt good about that as a parent, that I could support her in that way. Right.

So again, I'm assuming all of you that have children can find one thing that maybe your kids have done that you didn't plan or they look at things differently. My kids are always educating me about the world and how we look at things a little differently. And because of my life experiences, I feel stronger about some things as well as their dad than they do because they haven't gone through some things we went through growing up. I don't have to get scared. Nobody's going to take anything from me.

No one's asking me to change my values. They're just saying this is my value and it's a little different and I want you to respect that, but support me at the same time and I can still respect your value and understand where you're coming from. So if you're feeling scared and lost and not sure where to go and things are going on with your kids, of course I always support therapy. That's a great place to go talk to therapists and get some direction, right. And being able to learn to use your CBT tools and to communicate with your kids in that way.

So instead of just saying, oh, I'm scared or I don't know what to do to ask yourself those questions, why is this bothering me? What don't I like about it? What value do I feel maybe was violated or challenged and why does that matter to me? And when you can figure out those thoughts and you communicate to your kid those thoughts, right. Versus your feelings of being disappointed or angry or hurt, which just pushes people away and shuts them down, it's like, this is what I'm thinking.

Because based on what you're telling me, and that's where you can have a good talk, right? Like, we don't take things so personal when people tell us this is what I'm thinking versus is what I'm feeling, right. This is what I'm thinking. And giving your kids a chance to clarify, like, oh, that's not what I meant or that's not what this is going to look like or yeah, that is what it's going to look like or this is what I can do to work with you so you feel more comfortable, whatever that is. There's just so many, I could go on for hours about so many different examples of things that are important to certain people and things that aren't important and to talk through, like, yeah, that's a good compromise.

We can do that, right. But it takes the time for you to understand yourself more and be clear and maybe make a list of what are my Values and you can look up Brene Brown, who I'm a big fan of, has done a lot of work talking about values and has had some exercises I've worked on where there was a whole list of values and we circled, when I say we, me and my husband, working on it together, we circled what are our values? What are our values in general? What are our values about our family? What are our individual values?

There's so many out there, so you can even look up on the Internet and come up with a list and maybe go through that to really think in a more broad way instead of just like, oh, the basic values of maybe honesty and trust and treating people well, being kind, all that kind of stuff. So those are hopefully our basic ones, right? But what ones are really near and dear to my heart? What things really trigger me? Right.

I think all of the anger that comes out in our country regarding all the political stuff is that people's values are being challenged and violated and people are scared that certain things are going to be taken from them, which has happened. And that's a value they hold, right. And the thought is nobody cares. They're just doing what they want. They have no insight because nobody's talking with each other.

We're just getting angry and scared. And that's what happens when our values, when we get triggered. And of course, when it's with our children, there's probably nothing more near and dear to our hearts. So I say to people a lot of times, and I know it might sound kind of catastrophic, but I say, when you're on your deathbed, are you going to be okay with the choices you made? Are you going to be okay if you stop talking to your child, which happens, are you going to be okay if you lose a relationship, right?

Think about, are you going to be okay? It's going to be too late. And I don't want you to have regrets. This is your one time. This is the life we're aware of, right?

What's my life going to look like? This is what my choices are. These are my values. And how can I have the people that I care about the most still be in my life, even if our values are different? And I'm not going to go to my children to make me feel better and take care of me because that's not their job.

But I'm going to go find others that I can talk, maybe vent to, cry to if I have to talk things through so that when I go back to my kids and I'm trying to work out whatever this conflict is it's only going to come from a loving, caring place, which is going to allow your children to be more open and honest with you and know that you're there for them no matter what, even if they do something. And they're like, you know what? That was a mistake. I wish I didn't do that. I was under the wrong influence, right?

I wasn't around good people. I got caught up in something. But I want to be able to know. I can come to you and tell you that without judgment, without saying, I told you so. You should have listened to me, right?

To be like, you know, whatever path you take, anything that changes, I'm here for you, and I'm going to love you no matter what. So we want to always remember at the core, that's what's most important. We don't always have to like what our kids are doing, but we always want to love them and we always want them to know that. And again, it's nothing personal against you. You didn't fail.

You didn't do anything wrong. Hopefully, we're all raising our children to be independent and to go out into the world and to create a life that makes them happy, but to also learn new things and meet new people and learn about new cultures, become more worldly. And with that, they may see things differently than us. Right? So we have to know, like, we're raising them to be a certain way, but we may get a little disappointed with things they learn because we maybe haven't had that experience.

And they're like, hey, I learned this. I kind of think differently about this now. And you're like, what? But I haven't had that same experience. And I didn't even know some of the information my kids teach me.

And I'm like, that's really interesting. That's a different way of thinking about it. That's what I'm trying to teach you guys, right? To try to think differently about things, to have more balanced thinking, right? It's not all or nothing.

And it's going to be okay.

You want to be solid with your kids that I raised you to be loving, caring, kind individuals. And if that even takes you on a path that's different than mine, I have to be able to work with that. It's not this double standard of like, oh, yeah, well, that's what I taught you. But, yeah, I don't really like the choices you're making. That doesn't work, right?

That doesn't work. I love you. I taught you this. And you know what? I really can respect and admire that.

Maybe you're thinking of things in a different way, and maybe I can learn from you and maybe we can focus on our similarities and differences. And as a parent, not just you figuring out what am I thinking and sharing that with your kids, but ask them what they're thinking. Why are they making that choice or that decision when they made some changes, chose to be in that relationship, whatever it is that they're going through? Everybody has a story, and we need to take time to learn it so that we can be supportive and loving and non judgmental and be able to be open to maybe give that advice and wisdom and strength when they need us probably the most. Don't pull away when your kids need you the most because it's uncomfortable.

So it's not all just about them. As I'm saying, take care of yourself. I'm big on self care, physically, emotionally, spiritually. And then you can go be there for them as well. So I hope I've given you lots of different options.

You might just agree with your kids as you learn more about it, you may agree to disagree. You may need to give yourself some space and say, I need some time to kind of take all of this in before I can kind of jump in with you or even hear what you have to say. And it kind of makes life interesting, right? Be a little boring if all of us are just kind of robots doing what our Parents asked us to do. Kind of makes us more interesting, life more interesting, and all of us can grow together.

Grow together. So I hope I answered my listeners questions. You can still be happy even if your kids values are different, because you can still be happy within yourself because you're going to live by your values. You don't have to give that up. And if you can find some understanding and at the core, if you know your child's a good person and they're kind and they're loving, that's what's most important.

And I think maybe for to focus on what values do we still have in common, not focusing on the ones that maybe we don't. And there's always going to be conflict with your kids no matter how old or they are, because they're always your kids, no matter how old they are. And you have to find some balanced thinking to deal with that conflict you have within yourself. And again, continue to take care of yourself while you support them.

So I hope this was helpful. I enjoyed talking about it. I think it's a great discussion. Please, I'd love to get some feedback from you guys on this, maybe some experiences you've had, some other conflicts I didn't address because there's no way I could address all of them. And let's keep talking about this, and let's keep learning and growing together.

Please share this with anyone you feel that it could be helpful. You guys know how to find me. You can always go to my www.mycognitivebehavioraltherapy.com. I have lots of information. I got blogs coming out every other week now. All my podcasts are on there.

I got some videos you can read, some newsletters. You can also find me on Instagram under MyCBTPodcast and on Facebook under Dr. Julie Osborn. So, as always, keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns, your questions. I love hearing your feedback.

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And as always, make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.