Episode #167

The 5 Secrets of Communication & CBT

Learning how to communicate effectively is an ongoing process.

One of my favorite tools from Dr David Burns (author of Feeling Great) is the 5 Secrets of Communication.

How can you use these five secrets to improve your communication?

Join me, Dr Julie, as we talk about the five secrets of communication and how you can use these alongside your CBT tools to improve your relationships.

Click to listen now!

 
 

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, it's Dr. Julie. Welcome to My CBT Podcast. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

So I hope everybody's doing well. And thanks, as always, for joining me. I'm going to start off, as I usually do, with a nice email from a listener who was asking a really good question about my mantra.

So I thought I would share this with you and give you my answer.

So it says,

“Hello, I I started listening to your podcast. I'm 58, live in France, and suffer from major depressive disorder. I am due to meet with a CBT practitioner for the first time next week. On your website, you say, make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. Does this mean go beyond your fears, anxiety? How do I know what's best for me? Is that trusting my intuition as opposed to my fears? Thank you.”

I thought that was a really good question because I use my mantra all the time, right? And I just wanted to answer her question. So when she says, does this go beyond your fears and anxiety?

It's all about not making decisions based on how you feel, right? Fear, anxiety, those are feelings, right? So when you say, I don't feel like doing this. I don't feel like doing that, and say, What is best for me? Again, I tell everybody, I know you can answer that for yourself because I don't tell people what's best for them. I just say, when you say, I don't feel like doing something instead, say, What would be best for me? And if you can get some time to get quiet within yourself and not react to those moods, you will make a good decision. Because you want to remember, you never make a good decision based on how you feel. And you don't want your anxiety managing you, you want to manage it. So going beyond your anxiety and using your CBT tools will help you decrease your anxiety, feel better, and have a happier life. So when you say, what is best for me? You want to look at the situation and people come up with the answer. So that's what I wrote back to her. First being aware of, is this a feeling? Is this a thought?

What are my feelings I'm reactive to? Especially anxiety, right? It's just a very difficult physical reaction, and people just want to get rid of it. And you want to just pause, get quiet, take a breath, and say, Okay, what is really best for me in this situation? It's not going to be me reacting to how I'm feeling. So if you really love it, just let you know on my website, mycognitivehaveraltherapy. Com, when you hit the tab that says store, I have a bunch of merchandise for my podcast, and there's tons of stuff that has my mantra on it, T-shirts and water bottles. But there's also a picture that you could just hang on your wall and look every day while you're working or when you first wake up or whatever it is, because I tell myself that every day. Make decisions based on what's best for me, not how I feel. So if you need a reminder, I know it's easy for me because I know this stuff, and it takes a lot of dedication and drive and commitment from you guys, which I really appreciate, to really learn the tools, get the workbooks, do the worksheets, really practice it.

It takes some work. So having reminders or writing it down for yourself, of course, on a big post-it note, stick it in front of you. So you see it all the time. On your bathroom mirror, I tell people, when you open up your pantry, when you see things in your face, it's just these subliminal messages to keep asking yourself. And I am telling you, it will make a difference. It could be a life-changer because it is for me, and I hear from people all the time. So again, please send in your emails. I love receiving them and responding to them and answering questions a lot of you guys might have as well. So I appreciate taking that time all the way from France, which is pretty cool. So what I was going to talk about today is a tool by Dr. David Burns called the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. So if you guys remember back in July, I had the honor, great honor, to have Dr. David Burns on my podcast. They got to interview him. It's also on my YouTube, if you want to see the video of it under Dr. Julia Osborne.

And I have mentioned in My interview with him that one of my favorite tools that he has created is the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and especially the first one called Disarming Technique. So I know I've mentioned this in other podcasts, and I thought, Well, it can't hurt to repeat it. There's so many podcasts now. It's been over five years that a lot of people I know don't start from the beginning or you're searching for things. So I thought, I'm just going to go over this because it's a phenomenal tool, and everyone, including myself, always to be working on improving their communication because that is what it comes down to in having good relationships, getting along with people, being able to have good conflict resolution. It's all about your communication skills. So again, this is Dr. David Burns. I always like to give him credit, where credit is due for sure, and walk through this with you. This also is in his book called Feeling Good Together. So that would be the book to get if you want to focus on what I'm going to teach you today. So these are your listening skills. So the first tool is the disarming technique.

So disarming is your disarming, right? An argument. So if someone's arguing with you, why do arguments continue and go on and on and on? It's because each person just ends up defending themselves. You made me feel angry when you did da da da da. I didn't do that. It's not my fault you feel angry. That's just the way you took it. That's not what I was saying. And yes, it was. No, it wasn't. So now we're just defending ourselves and we're really not getting to the crux of the issue. If you did make somebody angry, what are they thinking about that made them feel angry? But we first have to disarm the conversation so we can start having better communication. So the disarming technique is when you find some truth in what the other person is saying, even if it seems totally unreasonable or unfair. So that's the real catch there, right? Find some truth, even if your mind is going like, Oh my God, this is ridiculous. I got to find something, a little bit of truth, even in your mind, if you think this is ridiculous, it's unreasonable, it's unfair. So somebody comes to have a conversation or an argument, whatever, they're coming to talk to you and they say, You really made me angry.

You never call me back. You never respond to my text messages. I'm trying to reach out to you. So we know that saying never, most likely this isn't true. Instead of saying, I did last week, I responded, or I called you that other day, or whatever, you want to just pause and say, Okay, what truth can I find in here that I didn't respond to some text messages? They're saying never. I don't have to agree with that. So I would say, You know what? I hear you that you're angry, and you're right. I didn't respond to those last couple of text messages, which made you just wait on me and not have the answer that you needed to know if we were going to go out and get together this weekend. Okay, so you're saying, yeah, you know you're right. I didn't respond to those text messages. When you disarm a conversation or an argument, the person cannot continue to argue because There's nothing to argue with because you've acknowledged that there's some truth in what they're saying. They don't have to keep defending themselves. It is powerful stuff, and it takes a lot of practice.

I know this stuff really, really well, and I still, of course, get caught up in my emotions and I have to say, Okay, take a minute. Let's use your tools. How can I disarm this conversation? Sometimes just saying, You know what? You're right. I didn't respond. And I can understand why that made you angry, which is the second step. So once you disarm, you go into empathy, which is number two. So you put yourself in the other person's shoes and try to see the world through his or her eyes. That's what empathy is. But there's two types of empathy that we want to focus on here. There's thought empathy and there's feeling empathy. So thought empathy is where you paraphrase the other person's words. And feeling empathy is where you acknowledge how he or she is probably feeling. Okay, so first I say, You're right, I didn't respond to those text messages. I understand why it made you angry. You're waiting on me to see if we were going to have plans this weekend. So I've already agreed that I didn't respond. And my thought empathy is, I paraphrase what they said, that I didn't respond, and they're waiting to see if we were going to get together.

So they know I'm hearing them and I'm understanding what they're saying. And then the feeling empathy I would go into and say, I can see why that made you angry. I can imagine how frustrating that is and disappointing that you're waiting for me to respond so we can make these plans. And I just didn't do that. And I can see why you're so upset about it. Now, most likely if you're hitting the nail on the head with this person, they're going to nod their head. Yeah, that's right. I do feel that way. That's what I did say. Okay, so empathy. Thought empathy, you're paraphrasing their thoughts, their words, what they shared with you. Feeling empathy, you're acknowledging how they are probably feeling. And then number three is you inquire. So you're going to ask gentle probing questions to learn more about what the other person is thinking and feeling. So I would first inquire. I always say, did I get that right? Am I understanding why you're upset with me right now? Am I right about how you were feeling and what you were thinking? And then they could say, yes, exactly. Yes, you are getting what I'm saying.

Or they might say, yes, but there's more. Or no, I'm going to rephrase what I said because I don't think you're understanding what I said. Just some probing questions is, Is that what made you angry? That I didn't respond right away? Or are you frustrated that you're having other thoughts? Maybe they're thinking you don't really care about them. Maybe you pushed a button that they don't feel important in That they don't feel important to you, and that might be some trigger from other issues in their life. It can get very layered here, right? And these are the questions, because I'm a therapist, that I'm always thinking about what's underneath when someone has a really strong reaction. I'm not saying it's not the situation right then and there. But if you probe a little bit, say, Is there other things that are bothering you? Is there anything else that's upsetting? Am I understanding the issue right now? And am I understanding what you're telling me and how you're feeling? So that's the inquiry, which is really You do not want to skip that part because then you can really make it solid for that person to really be disarmed and then hear what you have to say, which is the next step.

The next step is your self-expression. These this more skills, making I feel statements. So when you use the I feel statements such as I feel upset rather than you statements such as you're wrong or you're making me furious. So instead of saying you're ridiculous and you're overreacting, and usually I respond to you, here you would say, I feel sad and I'm also a little frustrated that based on looking at these text, I don't feel like you really gave me enough time to respond. I needed to check something else that I thought might be going on this weekend, and that you get so angry and think that you're not important, that I feel frustrated that You've come towards me this way. I feel attacked, and I feel that we could have handled things a lot better. And that's where I'm coming from. So that's where your I feel statements would be. And then the last skill here, number five, because the five secrets of effective communication is stroking. So here's where you want to find something genuinely positive to say to the other person, even in the heat of the battle. You want to convey an attitude of respect, even though you may feel very angry with the other person.

I have a generic stroking statement, which I just tell everybody that even if you end the argument, or disagreement that you're having and you don't think that it's really seen eye to eye. You can just say, I really appreciate you coming to me and us being able to hear each other out. We can agree to disagree. But the stroking is just I really appreciate that you let me know how you felt and that you're able to hear what I had to say and let me hopefully make things better and you could hear how I felt about the situation as well. That's just a generic one. If things really go well, you just really make it personal. Like, wow, that was really hard conversation. That took a lot of courage for you to come to me and tell me how you were feeling. And it really gave me the opportunity to hear what you had to say and be able to apologize or correct the situation and make our relationship even better because that's what's really important to me. So the stroking, right? You're stroking, you're doing something positive, you're giving something positive back. You're not just leaving it with, well, you said this and I said this, and this is how I feel, and that's the end of it.

And then everybody just feels empty. That didn't feel very good. So let me go over that again. So I know I gave you a lot of information. And again, getting the Book, Feeling Good Together, it's a great book. You can go through this. There's a lot of exercises, so you can really do this repetitive. The other thing I tell people is make a copy. You'll see this in the book, The Five Secrets. Effective communication, make a printout, and have it right in front of you. If you're working on a relationship or friendship, you say, Hey, I really want to communicate better. This is something I'm learning. Can we do this together? And each person can have it in front of them. It doesn't to be all pretty and put together with a nice little bow. We can look at our notes, and look and say, Okay, yeah, I want to disarm this argument right now, and I want to use the disarming technique, and you can just read it off right in front of you. Until you practice enough and it'll become a little more natural. Sometimes you can just work on practicing just one tool.

I tell a lot of my clients, just work on the disarming technique. That's all you got to master this week. Then we'll work on the empathy and we'll work on the inquiry, the feel statements in the stroking. That give yourself some grace. It's a new tool. It's very different than maybe what you've done before. So you want to give yourself time to really learn it. So again, I'm going to just go through this all together at once so it won't be so choppy. And I'm going to use the same argument that we started with, that someone comes to me and says, Hey, Julie, I'm really angry. I text you. I needed an answer. I don't know if we're going to get together or not. We were talking about this earlier in the week and you just never responded. And I'm just really angry, and you just don't respond very well to text. I'll say, Hey, you know what? You're right. I didn't respond that quickly. I'm sorry that made you angry. I can see why you're feeling frustrated and feeling like you're not important and feeling hurt and feeling like you couldn't do anything about the situation because you're waiting on me.

And I'm hearing what you're saying, that you're saying that you felt angry and you felt frustrated and you were waiting on me to respond, to make plans. And again, that was really hurtful because it was important to you. So am I hearing you right? Is that what you're saying? Is that the issue That you're coming to me right now, that you're frustrated regarding not responding to the text soon enough so we can make plans because we want to spend time together. And because of that, you felt really hurt and angry and frustrated. Yeah, That's exactly how I felt, really hurt and frustrated. And I wanted you to respond a lot quicker. And I couldn't get a hold of you because I tried to call. Okay, well, that's good to know also. That you tried to make a phone call and I didn't answer. So that made you even more frustrated. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Okay, I totally get that. So I want to let you know how I'm feeling about this as well. So I feel a little frustrated that you came at me so strong instead of being able to say, I want to talk to you about something.

I feel a little frustrated. I felt a little defensive at first that you wanted me to respond right away. I was feeling that you weren't considering. It was during the day. I was working. I couldn't answer my text right away. And that made me feel a little frustrated as well. And I would never want to do anything to hurt you because you're important to me. And I wanted to make these plans. But I feel that you didn't have understanding for how my situation was, knowing it was in the middle of the day and you knew that I was working. So let's talk about the plans. I'd still love to spend the weekend doing some things with you. If you're open to that, I'm going to work on being better I'm responding to your text, but I need you to be mindful also of what time of day it is and just being considerate, being considerate that I might not be available to respond right away. But looking at our friendship, our relationship, that you know that you're important to me. And I just want to end this conversation by saying, again, I really appreciate that you came and told me that you were upset with me so we could walk through this and make it better.

I really appreciate I appreciate that I don't want to have a relationship where we're just putting things under the rug and we're not addressing it. And I know it's not always easy to bring up difficult conversations, and I want both of us to be able to do that in the future with each other because it's only going to make our relationship better. So I really appreciate that you let me know how you felt. So I had the opportunity to make things right and explain where I was coming from as well. And I really look forward to our time together this weekend. So that's how you do it. What do you guys think? Does it sound like, Yeah, I could see that working. And sometimes you might have to go back and go over, disarm a little better if it's not working, do the empathy a little better if it's not working. Progress, not perfection, I always say. That the The more you do this, the smoother it's going to get. Sometimes you're going to knock it out of the park. It's like, Oh, that works so good. And sometimes you're like, I got to keep working on this.

Or I got into the you statements instead of the I feel statements. We have to be mindful when we're communicating because it's easy to just drift off in the wrong direction. It's easy to get defensive. It's easy to use the you statements. It takes some mindfulness and practice to stay using the I feel. And I also tell people all the time, and this is true for me, that because we're so reactionary to things in our lives, that you may just react when someone is coming at you or accusing you or super pissed off at you or whatever is going on. And you may just react. And then as soon as you catch yourself, so, Okay, I'm going to stop. I want to read you. You don't have to just say, Well, I'll try it next time. I'm just going to keep you on with this person, right? That would not be the answer. You can say, Hey, Susie, I'm going to take a minute here. I'm not reacting the way I want to. I'd like to start this conversation over, if that's okay with you. They may look at you like, Okay, that's a little weird, but okay, because they're in that mode of being pissed off and yelling.

And then just say, I just need a minute. Take a breath. Pause. Ready? Pause and breathe, pause and breathe. And then be like, Okay, what is it that I can say to disarm this conversation? Something that I can find the truth in what this person is saying to me, even if I think it's completely ridiculous and insane and crazy and unfair and unraiseable, whatever word you want to use, because we've all been in those moments of like, What are they talking about? But you've got to find a little nugget, a nugget of truth. It's all the person needs for their brain to say, Okay, I'm being heard. So it's never too late to stop the argument and say, I want to redo. Can we start this over? I want to respond to you differently. I want you to know that I'm hearing what you're That would be a good restart. And then start with the disarming, do the empathy, inquire. Then you get to do your I feel statements and the stroking. So I tell everybody as we're practicing, I know at first you're really focusing on the other person, right? With disarming and doing the thought empathy and feeling empathy and an inquiry.

And I'm like, it's not just you're just calling to them or wanting to make them feel better, but you're wanting to... This is part of disarming the argument is you need to calm the argument down. Let the person know you hear them. That is one of the most important things in the world is people want to be acknowledged, and people are not acknowledged most of the time. Oh, that's not important just because you feel that way. Parents do that with kids all the time in relationships. Your boss doesn't listen to you all the time. We don't get acknowledged, and that creates such frustration and resentment and all those things. So if you can acknowledge somebody and what they're saying, it goes so far. I want you to see the power you have in your relationships and how you can control things a lot more than maybe you are now, because, going back to my mantra, you're probably making decisions based on how you feel and not what's best for you. And what's best for you is to learn good communication skills and you practice them. So again, if you get caught off guard, it's going to happen all of us, we can catch ourselves and say, I'm doing a redo.

I need a moment. And again, it's focusing, getting them to feel acknowledged and understood. And then you get your chance to say how you feel. You are part of this conversation. This isn't just about all, just about the other person. And you can take your time and really use your I feel statements. I feel upset. I feel hurt. I feel frustrated. And then at the very end, when things hopefully will be resolved, Again, to do the stroking. Generic, I appreciate you talking to me. I'm glad we were able to figure this out or both hear each other. End of stroking, or you can get more specific. What did you like about the conversation? What does it mean to you that they took the courage and it was important to them to fix this? Whatever it might be. That would be the stroking. So again, like I told Dr. Burns in our interview, One of my favorite tools he's created, because I have found it so helpful in my relationships, in all of my relationships, to really be able to have more control over the conversation by being mindful, being present, and using these specific tools.

And I have read the Feeling Good Together book. Me and my husband read it together. We did the exercises together. It's been very, very helpful. And when you respond and communicate this way to others, they We eventually will start to hear you and be attracted to this better communication, and hopefully we'll be more open to also want to learn it. Make a suggestion based on who you're coming in the conversation with. Maybe just, Hey, Listen to Dr. Julie's podcast. Read the book. I made some handouts for us. Maybe we can practice this together if you're open to that. Just be open because we're all focused on improving our relationships, hopefully, and wanting to make our lives more peaceful. We don't want to have a lot of relationships. There's a lot of hostility and sadness and frustration. It's really powerful with your children, parents, no matter what age they are, because a lot of times kids don't feel heard, don't feel respected, don't feel important. And when you just say, and I've shared this a million times over, but when I finally started learning this and my youngest daughter, because our kids think they know what we're going to say, sometimes they're right.

That would be disarming right there. Sometimes you're right. And that's what I said. She was upset about something, and I just looked at her and I said, You're right. And she was speechless and walked back up the stairs. And all I had to do was disarm and it stopped because she was shocked that I said, you're right, because she was, whatever it was. I don't even remember what it was. And I'm like, this stuff really works. This was a long time ago and I was just learning it. I didn't have to do anything else. I just disarmed. Sometimes that is all you need to do. I've had that experience over and over again. I hope you'll take the time to learn this tool. You can relisten to this podcast. I went over each step over and over again. Give yourself some grace. It takes time to learn. Again, like any skill, all the CBT tools, They take time to learn and practice. You got to practice them. You can't just hear me and think it's just going to happen. It's taking time to write things down, figuring all this stuff out, and it can really make a difference.

And you deserve to be happy, feel loved, feel heard. And to be able to do that, you got to take the time to work on yourself and learn these tools and then practice them in your life. So as always, I'm hoping this was helpful. I think it will be because we all can learn it and I'm still always practicing and trying to get better myself. Please share this with anyone who might benefit from it.

Again, you guys know where to find me on my website, mycognitivebehavioraltherapy.com.

You can find me on Instagram under My CBT Podcast; Dr. Julie Osborn on YouTube and Facebook.

Please keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns, your questions. I love hearing from you and getting your feedback.

Please hit the subscribe button to make sure that you never miss an episode.

And as I shared with you guys earlier, if you go to my website or if you go directly to mycbt.store, I got a lot of fun merchandise that has my mantra on it that you can give as gifts. A lot of people have shared these as gifts, which is really cool. You can get for yourself. Then the books I talk about, Dr. Burns' books, Mind Over Mood, those are all on the same page that you can click and order them and start learning your CBT tools to improve your life.

And as always, make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.