Episode #171

Fear & CBT

Anything important in life is generally hard to get through or hard to deal with.

How can you understand and control your fear so you can accomplish the things you fear the most?

Join me, Dr Julie, as I share a story about monsters and how you can use CBT tools to conquer your fear.

Click to listen now!

 
 

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, and welcome to My CBT Podcast. This is Dr. Julie. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a licensed clinical social worker specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

So welcome. Thanks for being with me. I wanted to share a review. I got an Apple podcast.

It says,

“Great podcaster!

“I ran across Dr. Julie about a month ago. She definitely opened up my to various ways to improve myself. Took her advice and got the Mind Over Mood book. I just started working through the book. I have come to the realization that it isn't a quick fix, it's a journey.

“Thank you, Dr. Julie.”

So thanks for writing in and reviewing. And I encourage all you guys to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes.

And writing a review is great and giving other people a little bit of insight how the podcast can be helpful.

And maybe we can reach out to more people and start learning more CBT tools together.

So thanks for that.

So today I want to talk about fear. This fear comes up, at least I'd say, daily in my sessions with my clients in different ways. What I hear the most I was, That's hard. It's hard. It's going to be hard. That's too painful. I don't want to deal with that. I'm afraid.

I'm afraid of the outcome.

I'm afraid of talking about it. I'm afraid of walking through it. So the first thing I tell everybody when they say to me that it's hard, I always say, I tell you when you say it's hard? And I tell people that that means whatever you're dealing with is important because I've never found anything that is easy, that is important. Everything in our lives that are important to us is hard. And that's really a good thing because that gives it some purpose. When things are easy, it's like, yeah, we don't think too much about it. It doesn't really change the way we think about things. It doesn't make us feel more confident or empowered or special or anything.

It's just I did it, whatever. But when it's hard and you conquer it and you walk through it and you get to the other side, especially when you have a good outcome, that's what really makes a difference to us.

So this is what I'm going to do first. I'm doing something a little different today because I'm actually going to read you guys a story. So one of my favorite self-help books, it's a very old book, but it's called Adult Children: The Secrets of Dysfunctional Families by John and Linda Friil.

I got this book a long time ago.

And there's a story at the very end, and this is what I want to read to you guys, and then we'll talk more about fear and how to overcome it, how to walk through it, how to use your tools to help you along the way.

And just talking about our society and how things that are making our lives easier is really not what's helping us.

So we'll get to that after this. But let me start with the story.

So it's called Kiss Your monster on the nose. So sit back and get comfortable. Once upon a time, there was a little girl who lived in a village from the big city. The village was nestled in a beautiful sunlit valley surrounded by a tall snow-capped mountain range. As the little girl grew older, she began to hike in the foothills at the base of the mountains. When she became a teenager, she asked her parents if she could hike over the mountains to the village on the other side to visit her grandparents. At first, her parents were very upset and worried, and they told her that she could not go. But the little girl pleaded and begged and argued that someday she would be a young woman and that she would have to grow up sometime. After several months of debate, her parents finally agreed to let her go. Her father and mother taught her all that she knew about hiking and camping and surviving alone in the woods. They made her a backpack out of sturdy canvas, helped her pack, and then they all knelt down and prayed that she might have a safe journey. The next day, she began her track across the mountains.

Her first night alone was scary, but she managed to build a good fire, ate some of the sauces and cheese that her father had packed for her and then fell asleep, covered by the soft quilts that her mother had made for her.

The howling of the wolves frightened her a little. But she kept her fire burning brightly most of the night, which made her feel safer. The next day, she awoke with the sun, ate her biscuits and jam while sunning herself on the granite rock and began hiking up the mountains. Later in the afternoon, as the sun slipped behind top of the mountains, she reached a fork in the path. She didn't know which way to go. Perplexed, she sat down and prayed for wisdom. A few minutes later, she heard terrible, frightening noises coming from the direction of both paths. Her heart raced and her palms sweated. Suddenly from both paths, two monsters appeared. They were growling, gurgling, grumbling, and snorting. The little girl grabbed her backpack and began to run down the hill back toward her village, and then something inside of her told her to stop. Other people have hiked over these mountains in return to tell about it, she thought to herself. Maybe I better go back and see what this is all about. The little girl stopped and turned around. The monster had stopped right at the fork in the road, and something told her that they were trying to communicate with her.

Slow and carefully, she walked back towards the monster. As she got closer, the monster, guarding the path on the left, said, Take this path. It is much safer and much quicker. Take this path and you'll see your parents tomorrow night. At that very moment, the monster, guarding the path on the right, began to breach and howl a horrible blood-curling howl. Fire belched from its mouth, smoke poured from its nose. The little girl was terribly frightened. She bolted toward the monster on the left. As she got closer, she knows that the monster on the left was not as ugly as the one on the right, and it was definitely not as scary. The closer she came to the one on the left, the louder the one on the right howled. She was so confused that she did not know what to do. The monster on the left spoke in a soft voice, Trust me, I am not as ugly as the other monster, and I do not make those disgusting noises. With that, the monster on the right screamed and gurgled and snorted and puffed even more. She began to take the path to the left, fearfully even more that if she did not hurry, the other monster would chase after her and tear her to shreds.

A few hundred yards down the left path, she looked back to see if the other monster was chasing her. It was still standing at the fork in the path, and it was screaming and howling more and more, but it was not chasing her. And then she stopped. The monster on the left path was walking a few steps ahead of her, and it just smiled at her somewhat condescendingly, as if to say, Don't be a fool. And then something inside her told her to go back and take the right path. The closer she came to the fork in the road, the faster she ran until only seconds later she was running down the right path and up into the mountains. She didn't know why she had made this choice, but she just kept going. As the last bit of twilight drifted into the blackness of night, she looked down the mountain side from when she had come. She could see the fork in the path, and she could see the path that she had taken as well as the one that she almost took. Then she heard a thundering, rumbling, smashing, crashing, crushing sound that came from the left side of the mountain.

Straining to see in the near darkness, she saw a huge section of the mountain break loose and hurdle toward the left path below. Tons of rock and earth obligerated the left path at precisely the time that she would have been there had she gone that way. She fell to the ground and cried, releasing all the anxiety and tension of the past few hours. Then, just a few feet in front of her, appeared the ugly monster who had been guarding the right path. She looked up and gazed into its eyes. It was not howling or grumbling at all. Its eyes seemed peaceful and deep. His face had softened into a compassionate gaze. Without knowing why, the little girl jumped up and kissed the monster on the nose. The monster blushed and smiled. My name is fear, said the monster, and the other one's name is destruction. If you run away from me without listening to what I have to say, you might end up avoiding something that's important for you. But if you listen to me just right and learn to make friends with me, then you will have wisdom. As for the monster guarding the left path, no matter how attractive it seems on the surface, nothing good ever comes from destruction.

The little girl completed her journey after visiting her grandparents, safely home in her own village. Her parents noticed something very different about her. She was a young woman now who had learned to make friends with her fear instead of being paralyzed or destroyed by it.

So I read this story 20 years ago, probably, and I'm like, I love the story. I love the story about facing your fear and just the metaphor of everything that they describe here, and that, just like the title of this particular book, The Secrets of Dysfunctional Families, talks about the destruction that can happen when you hide and you run and you think you take the easy path and avoid, instead of dealing with the fear and what is in front of you. And that's what I want you guys to think about today.

How many times have you been fearful and you've just avoided?

You're anxious that your behavior is to avoid.

You thought is, I can't handle this. It's too difficult, it's too hard, it's going to be too painful, which made you feel fearful.

And then the behaviors to avoid and all of the physical reaction, especially with fear. You've probably got a racing heart. Maybe your palms are sweating, you're feeling shaky, you're feeling nauseous, light-headed, all this stuff that comes with feeling that fear. And the fact is we all are going to have fear in our lives at different times, at different intensities. I don't know what the specific situations might be. It could be your health, it could be relationships, it could be dealing with grief, careers, I mean, just friendships, anything, right? All different types of relationships. We are going to have fear in our lives, and we want to feel confident and competent that we can deal with it and walk through it and now run from it. Because when we run from it, we're going to end up with that destruction because we're going to make other choices that are not good for us, right? Avoidance is one behavior, but drinking alcohol, drugs, any addictions that we decide to use to avoid feeling the fear and numbing ourselves out. That's destructive. Not being honest in relationships, allowing people to manipulate you, being codependent, that is all destructive because maybe you're afraid to honor Honor your own voice, honor yourself, leave a relationship, set healthy boundaries, and feel for what the person is going to think.

What if they don't want to be friends with me anymore? What if they don't want to talk to me anymore? What if I speak up at work? Maybe I'll get fired. There's a million scenarios I could share with you, right?

And you guys could share a million with me.

So I want you to start being more mindful. Is fear coming up and I'm just not paying attention? And what am I telling myself that's making me fearful in the situation?

And how am I reacting to it?

How am I feeling physically? What am I telling myself? There's a million thought records right here. So let's talk a little more about fear and different aspects to it. Sometimes I talk to you guys about some articles that I really like in my psychology today. I do have one I'm going to refer to today, and I would like to give it credit. It's just from last month, from October 2025. So one of the articles was talking about Born to Strive, and that's what made me think about talking to you about fear.

And it talks about how struggles are natural inheritance, the state to which we are adapted. In its absence, we are psychologically fragile, heir to ills like anxiety and self-doubts.

So that's just one of the quotes they shared talking about struggle/fear. It's just a It's a part of our lives, and it's what we need to grow. It's not what we need to avoid. It's what we need to grow.

To start paying more attention to that is really important. There's tons of studies that show that when you engage in different cognitive challenges, I'm sure you guys have heard doing crossword puzzles or like Sudoku, the math problem activity, that it really does have tons of benefits, including our own longevity, and it reduces risk of cognitive impairment like dementia. It also slows the rate of decline among people already having some cognitive impairment.

So pushing yourself and doing things that aren't always easy is really important.

The thing I wanted to address also is that, especially in our days and times, that there's more and more technology.

In many ways, it's good, but with ChatGB BT, right?

That it's like, go Google this, Google that, and you go and you want to find answers.

It's just easier. Tell me what to say. Tell me what to do. How would I handle this situation, right?

And the negative about it is that it's just making the need for us to struggle to go away. And the ease of learning things through AI is not pushing us where we need to go, right?

So it's something to think about. If you ask AI, how do I handle a situation, that's not a terrible thing. But I'd rather have you take the time and say, You know what? I'm going to do a thought record. I'm going to figure out what am I thinking that's causing me to feel fearful, anxious, worried, insecure, whatever your feelings are, that's keeping me from really pushing myself or taking that leap of faith or trying something new, right?

Instead of asking the computer what they advise you to do.

You can do that and read it and take what you hear, but what is it that's going to work for you the best? What do you want to do?

How do you want to attempt to address a situation if you didn't let your fear get in the way, right? So something to think about because we all are getting into that habit that it's just easy to go ask AI. It's just easy to do that instead of really soul searching and thinking about what's getting in the way and why am I thinking like this?

What are my life lessons? What are my core beliefs that are having negative effects on how I'm dealing with my life because I'm really not pushing myself the way I need to? Think about this. I think that when things feel easy, that we assume that we're going to be successful in whatever we're doing. It's like, Oh, this is just coming easy to me. It's going to be good. And when things feel hard, we assume that it isn't going well, and I'm not going to do well, but it's really the opposite. Just because something isn't going well, it allows you to stop and reflect and really think about, What is it that I need to do differently? Why is this so hard for me? Are my own thoughts and beliefs getting in the way? Not just to take That easy path. Oh, this is easier. I'm going to do this. It's like, no, I got to push.

I got to push.

I would love to hear your stories because I know you all have them of when you've walked through your fear and you're like, Oh, my God, that really meant a lot to me. I am never We're going to forget this. I remember the hard things in my life a lot easier than I remember the easy things. The hard things really would stick with me. The hard things build my character, build my values. The hard things allow me to appreciate what I have in my life, not the easy things. The easy things were like, Yeah, whatever. But the hard stuff, maybe in the moment, I felt like it sucked, but I'm so grateful for it today because I wouldn't be who I am. I wouldn't be who... And you wouldn't be who you are without going through the difficult things. Now, sure, we might look and say, I could have got him past that without having to deal with that pain or certain things in your life. But if you really learn from it and say, What can I take from this? How do I want to be different? Then you can find some worth in going through the difficult things in your life.

And that's what's really important. And I think that's how people create resilience as well, is being able to see that was really difficult. But I rose to the occasion. I learned something new. I tried something different. I was able to open myself up to my community. I could get the support I need and not just isolate myself. There's lots of different ways of looking at this and how you're able to create something positive for yourself when you had to do something hard and you still did it.

So pay attention.

When you can notice that you're really pushing yourself and how difficult that feels, that's also showing you that you're really stretching yourself, you're making changes, you're maybe reaching for something you never thought was possible. So that's where you want to pay attention to that discomfort. What's getting in the way or what am I learning right now? Those are the good things to pay attention to, not to say, Oh, this is a sign I need to stop, or, Oh, this is a sign I need to run. What is this also telling me? Maybe I really am on the right path, something I've been avoiding for a long time, but it's getting to me to where I want to be.

So from this article, I wanted to share with you a little bit of research from a Stanford University psychologist named Alia Crum, and she was able to show that simply reframing stress, we talk about positive reframing with CBT, as a challenge rather than a threat, recruits a set of positive emotions did not only motivate people to engage in difficult activities, but insulate them from the physiological harm of stress.

So that's super cool. It's a win-win.

In her studies, participants were taught to view stress as a helpful response rather than a harmful one, had blunted their cortisol reactivity, better performance under pressure, and increased their cognitive flexibility. She says the mindset that we bring and the stress that comes along with it influences what it does to the body, which is really interesting.

It's not always a negative thing, right? And although the idea of making things harder on purpose sounds like a terrible story someone told you, right? It might be exactly what you need to live more fulfilled lives.

And it calls on a deeper cognition, stronger emotion regulation, richer memory, and more resilient mental framework.

So that's what I was saying earlier, that you're going to feel more resilient, you're going to feel stronger, you're going to be able to think deeper, your cognition is going to be sharper, all these things because you're really pushing yourself. And I know discomfort just sounds, right? It's uncomfortable, right? But it's really your path to grow. And when we avoid the difficult things in our lives, we're also avoiding the very forces that make us stronger, smarter, and more alive. So again, I want you to take an inventory about your life and where you are today and say, Okay, what am I accomplishing that's important to me? What am I not accomplishing that's important to me? Because I'm afraid it won't work out or people will judge me or it just seems too difficult or I don't know where to start. I'm feeling overwhelmed. Again, I'm here to support you that it is hard to do hard things, but that is really what brings that joy, that ecstasy to our lives when we can get to that place and to figure out, why do I keep repeating the same things? Why do I keep avoiding things?

Why do I always take the easy path, the path of least resistance? I don't really feel fulfilled.

I don't really feel happy. I feel like, When people give me compliments, I'm like, Yeah, because I'm thinking, Well, it was the easy thing. I really didn't push myself. Maybe they don't know it, but I didn't. So I don't really feel that great about myself. There's other information within the article, too, is saying that we as human beings are more motivated to avoid pain than pursue reward.

Biologically, We are more focused on being safe. How can I be safe? What's safe? What's going to keep me safe?

In our modern culture, as I was saying earlier, it doesn't help.

You always hear all this marketing and everything about being comfortable, being happy.

It tells you to wait until you're ready, wait till your fear disappears. But when's that ever going to happen?

And comfort is overrated. They say that the key to feeling in life isn't avoiding discomfort.

It's moving ahead anyway.

When you can defront the fear that's holding you back, you not only feel good, you also feel proud, and you build the courage, and you actually avoid that deeper pain of regret. They say that bravery is the choice to move despite the fear, taking steps forward with your heart pounding and your palms sweating.

It's really an interesting, I think, opportunity, again, to ask yourself, Where am I in my life? Am I pursuing the career, the opportunities, the relationships, the personal work? Am I really pursuing what I want and would make me feel fulfilled, or am I just allowing my feelings to dictate my life? You know my mantra, right? You want to make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel. You just don't make good decisions based on your feelings. And we need to figure out, what am I thinking that's causing me to feel this way?

And is it even true?

I guarantee you guys are making life decisions based on thoughts that aren't even true. And that's really huge. And that's really sad because you are more capable than you ever give yourself credit. I think everyone could share one story, again, that I've mentioned earlier, that you went through something that you never thought you could or you minimized. I have to say my experience, and I share this in some other podcasts, is that when my parents divorced and my mom moved away, my recollection for many years was like, Oh, I was fine. Oh, I was fine.

And I tell people and they'd be like, What?

What do you mean your mother moved? She wasn't down the street in an apartment. She went and visited. She moved. She was on the other side of the country. I got to see her once a year, but I really minimized how difficult that was for me. I really minimized my inner strength of getting through that. I really minimized how really present I think I stayed in that moment because I still had a really great childhood and fun and all the wonderful things I still had in my life until I was older and I would share my story and I would notice people's reactions.

They felt sadder than I did.

Because I was sad, but I was not in touch with that. And they were like, What?

And so over the years in doing my own therapy and working on my own core beliefs and all those good things that I share with you guys, I was able to give myself some credit like, wow, you really got through a difficult time in your life.

I have to say it was probably still the most difficult thing I ever went through, even though I was in total denial for a while. And then when I realized it, I was like, You know what?

If I got through that as a little kid, I can get through anything else that comes my way. And I've really used that knowledge and I've used that saying that I can handle whatever comes my way.

When I have gone through some really difficult other things in my life, I remind myself that I am resilient, and I have been very fearful many times in my life. And sometimes I had to go through it without a choice, and sometimes I've chosen to walk through it. But I've gotten through things and I've been able to find that resiliency and that bravery within myself. And I really hold on to that when difficult times come up, which they do, and they're going to, again, and I'm always going to need that framework to say, Okay, why am I feeling fearful? Because this is something really important to me in whatever way that shows itself. And how am I going to walk through this fear? And what am I thinking that's making me so afraid? And how can I use my thought records and all my other CBT tools to help me come up with a more balanced thinking? So I may still feel fearful, but it's going to be 20% versus 95. And 20% I can manage. And every time you take an act when you're feeling afraid, you're going to become stronger. You're going to become more confident in yourself.

You're going to become the person that you really want to be. Because you're going to become a brave person. It's someone who's within yourself, and it's going to help you to thrive in your life and to grow, and you're going to be thankful for it, and it's going to give you meaning in your life. And once you get past it, you're going to be able to look back and say, Wow, although that sucked at the moment, or that was really scary, or whatever you may say about it, I'm glad that I was able to walk through that because I'm going to take from it lessons I'm going to take it and have more confidence in myself and honor myself better. It can really be your own mindset and give you something more than you ever thought you could have. And being brave and walking through your fears can really help you create the future that you truly desire that maybe you don't have right now, and maybe you've been too afraid to even reach for it.

The more you face your and the more you believe in yourself and how that can influence your life, that will be your own foundation that you can always go to and reach for and know is going to be there forever because you created it, you lived it, you know the story better than anybody.

There's going to be parts that no one ever will know that you may not share or that they didn't really experience or understand, but you know what you did, and that's all that matters. It's not about having to share it with anybody else. It's having that confidence, feeling brave within yourself. Then, yeah, when fear shows itself, I'm going to kiss the monster on the nose and know that I made the right choice. So I hope this was helpful. I hope you're thinking about fear in a different way. I hope you're starting to identify what you are feelful about, how fear plays itself in your life, and how you can start using your CBT tools. Start with a thought record to figure out what am I thinking that's making me fearful? What's going on in this situation? Where is it coming from? Why is it so hard? And to be able to come with balanced thoughts, create some behavioral experiments. You can reach out to me, reach out to your own therapist if you're working with someone to walk through this. I see it all the time. I've seen it within myself. I've seen it with people I love.

I've seen it with clients. You That there's this glow, this energy when people share like, Oh, my God, you're not going to believe what I finally did. I've been putting that off forever. Or they come in and they're laughing because they're like, Why did I make that so hard in my life? Why did I keep telling myself I couldn't do it? And then when I did it, it was like nothing. And I'm so happy I'm on the other side. That's going to be your experience. So please reach out to me.

Please share your experience. As always, I love to hear from you guys.

I love to share it on my podcast so we all can learn from each other.

You know how to find me. My website is mycognitbehavioraltherapy.com.

You can also find me on Instagram under My CBT Podcast and on Facebook under Dr Julie Osborn.

Again, please keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns, your questions. I love hearing from you and getting your feedback.

Please hit the Subscribe button to make sure you don't miss an episode.

As I mentioned before, I do have my store on my website. I just wanted to share. I'm going to just have it for another four or five months. If you want to grab anything, now's the time. You can also go to mycbt.store. That'll take you directly to it. Also my mugs, which just seem to be the best sellers. It's a great gift for yourself or for someone you love. Those are on sale right now, and there's always free shipping. So it's just a little extra I put out there. I think it's just fun being able to have my mantra.

It's a good way to remind yourself, as I always tell all of you, to make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.