Episode #192

Improve Your Communication with CBT

Effective communication goes two ways and it can be frustrating when someone doesn’t understand you or react the way you need them to.

Do you ever feel like the people in your life should know how to talk to and deal with you by now?

How can you use the knowledge you already have about a person to communicate more effectively with them?

How can you make sure your needs are being met too?

Join me, Dr Julie Osborn, as I share with you some powerful CBT tools to help you get better results from your communication.

Click to listen now!

Full Episode Transcript

Hi, welcome to my CBT podcast. This is Dr. Julie. I'm a Doctor of Psychology and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. I'm here to help you bring the power of CBT into your own life.

So thanks for being with me. I hope everybody's doing well.

I want to talk to you guys today about something that comes up a lot in my sessions with my clients that I thought would be A helpful perspective, a helpful tool within your CBT tools to use when you're trying to get along better with people, communicate how you're feeling, trying to get your needs met, uh, understanding each other better. That's all what communication is about, right? And I do have other podcasts you can listen to on communication tools. Um, this is a different way of looking at it.

So let me get started. So I would call this, you know, using the knowledge you have about the person you're wanting to communicate with. So, you know, our inclination is just to go in and communicate the way we want to communicate, get to the point, be really frank, maybe, maybe be really passive, however your communication style is. And thinking that that's going to work because that's the way you feel comfortable communicating. And a lot of the hot thoughts could be that, you know, they should understand, it shouldn't be so difficult.

Why can't I just do it my way? Why can't I just, you know, talk to them the way I want someone to talk to me? And, you know, all that makes sense, but they're all hot thoughts because you're dealing with somebody's personality. You're dealing with somebody else's history. Someone else, you know, how they react to things.

Some people are really good with direct conversation. Some people get really defensive and nervous. Some people don't handle it if you raise your voice at all, you know, even if it's in like, you know, just a lot of enthusiasm. Um, so when I say use the knowledge you have about others is, you know, think about, you know, how do they receive communication? What's the best way for them to hear you?

So if the goal is to get your needs met, that's really important to remember, because it's not like I'm just doing this for them and I have to do things the way they want me to do it so that they hear me. The ultimate goal is for you to get your needs met based on whatever you're trying to communicate with that person, whether it's personal requests, whether, you know, it's a work request. If you're at the office and you need someone to do something for you, you know, what's the best way to communicate with that person? To get my needs met, for have them, to have them do what I'm asking, or to be able to maybe communicate with me in a different way so that I feel good about the relationship that I'm in. Um, you know, how do your kids or your nieces, nephews, or, you know, whoever's in your life, how are they gonna hear you best?

Right? Being super direct and confrontive is probably gonna put off a kid. Yeah. You know, so I have to think about who am I dealing with. So it takes some extra work, takes some extra time, takes some extra patience.

And if you really want to have good communication, you have to be willing to step back and really think about how does that person tend to respond to me and what has worked in the past that has actually been helpful. And what are my hot thoughts that are getting in the way of me taking that time? To be able to communicate in a way that they do hear me and I can get my needs met. So lots of different things you can do. Um, obviously what I just said already was identifying your hot thoughts and doing a thought record.

Um, you can also do, you know, like a journal letter, you know, like write out what do I want to say? What do you think they're going to say? How would you respond to that if that's what they said? You know, kind of doing an experiment beforehand. So you have different ways to approach however somebody might respond to you.

So I've always shared before in some other podcasts, so I'll just use this as an example again, is, um, you know, I'm definitely a multitasker. I say my husband's like a one-tasker. You know, he's much more like, tell me one thing you need me to do, I'll get it done. If I come in at him the way my brain works and I'm thinking about 5 different things, he just kind of is going to shut down and not hear what I have to say. So instead of me getting frustrated, cuz I think, which my hot thought would be that he should be able to just hear what I'm saying and do what I'm asking, right?

There's my hot thought. And then when it doesn't happen, I get frustrated. Instead, I have to say, okay, I know my husband super well. Let me use the knowledge I have that it's best to sit down with him when there's not other distractions, right? The TV's off, the phone's not around.

Maybe we're sitting down having a meal. Right. And for me to say, you know, I have something I need to ask of you. This is important to me. I want us to go over and make sure you hear me.

Let me know what you think about it. How can we make this happen? Because I know he will be like, okay, yeah, that sounds good. I get it. He can, you know, again, clarify, and then I can get my needs met cuz he's gonna do or take care of what I'm asking him to do.

Right. That's The most important thing.

So in the bigger picture, if you take a moment and think about, you know, if you have someone in your life, you're, you know, if you're married, your partner, whoever you're living with— again, it's a roommate, it's any— I'm talking about anybody, right? If I want something to get done, say you live with a roommate and you got issues with chores, right? You hear about that a lot also. People, I'm frustrated, I do more than the other person, right? So how am I going to approach this?

Probably have a plan and say, hey, can we sit down and talk about, you know, the household chores? And maybe start off with sharing, you know, what you see as a positive aspect. You appreciate the things they are already doing. So people's defenses go down. You're not just in for the attack.

And then you're able to share that these are the other things that I'd like us to work out. I'm a little frustrated. Maybe I feel like I'm doing more in this area. How do you feel? How can we make this more even?

What would work best for us?

So when you can communicate to someone else that you're thinking about them, you're respecting them, and you're coming across in that way, people are going to be way more apt to listen to what you have to say, right? If you know that somebody is exhausted and they just got home from work, but you know, you've been waiting a couple of days to talk to them and you're just that impatient, I'm telling you, you're not going to get your needs met. Because they're exhausted. So it might be frustrating. I understand that's normal.

But to say, you know what, I need to, you know, let them go take a nap and then say, hey, when you get up, I want to find time for us to just kind of talk and go over some things that I wanted to address. Okay, sounds good. Right? Because I know that's what's going to work best. If they're rested, they get something to eat, you know, then we can sit down and we can talk.

Another really great thing to do is When you want to go talk to somebody, you know, ask them, is this a good time? Like, give them an invitation. A lot of times, you know, somebody's working on something and then you just go up to them and start talking. They don't pay attention. You get pissed off and, you know, you get nowhere.

Instead of going— when you go up to someone, you say, hey, do you have time to talk right now? Or, you know, maybe in 10 minutes or an hour, or can we set up a time? People really love getting an invitation to actually sit down and talk. Because they feel like you're being considerate, you're respectful, and they want to meet your needs as well. And they're like, yeah, this is going to be best for me.

I can't do this right now. And then you leave at least with a plan. You're not just kind of, you know, waiting, going, when is this actually going to happen? And I can really think about how do I want to communicate with this person. So with your— again, with your children, you know, um, a lot of times, you know, When they get in the car from school and you start asking a million questions, what do they normally say?

Fine, fine. It was fine. It was fine. Which is absolutely no information whatsoever. Right?

So start off, you know, with just kind of being a little fun, maybe turning on some music in the car or, you know, maybe even asking, you know, what was, you know, the fun part of today? You know, starting off with something positive versus like drilling them. I think kids just feel drilled a lot. Well, how did your day go? What is your homework?

What do you have to get done for today? So people just kind of shut down, right? It's like too much. They just had like 8 hours of school and now you're asking them a million questions. So if you know your kid just likes to be quiet in the car, if you know they like to listen to music, if you want to bring them a snack, you know, you know your kids, just take a minute to think about it.

Each one of your kids, if you have more than one, is definitely individual and they're going to respond to you differently. So with each person in your life, I know some, you know, it's a learning experience, right? If you're working with somebody new, you're not gonna really know them well enough to say, okay, how do they respond? So let me just use my communication skills that I've learned through CBT that really tend to work and inquire with somebody, kind of get to know them a little bit, see, you know, how they respond, how they communicate with you. Like, you're really smart.

I just want you to Use that part of your brain to benefit you again, to get your needs met, what is best. And sometimes we're gonna trip up, right? I've done this. I can say with my kids, I'm like, I might be communicating really well based on who they are. And then one day I'm gonna screw up and I'm just not even gonna pay attention and do things my way.

And then I'm like, oh yeah, that doesn't work. All right. That's okay. We're doing progress, not perfection. You know, I can always go back and say, hey, I want to readdress what I was talking about.

I want to say this in a better way. I want to make sure you hear me. You know, if you have someone you feel comfortable enough with, you can also say, you know, what's the best way to communicate? What do you like? Do you want to set up a time to meet?

Are you okay if I ask these questions? What works best for you? Let them also educate you if you think you just kind of keep missing it and you don't really understand. Or you don't want to, you know, guess what's going to work. You know, just ask them, how do you like to communicate?

How do you like to touch base on things? Right? Do you want a meeting once a week if it's at work, or every day? Do we check in with your kids? You know, what's the best time to talk to them?

Are they good in the morning or not whatsoever? How about after school? Or we're going to, you know, maybe go walk the dog together afterwards when you get home, kind of relax, kind of enjoy there with your pet. And maybe you guys can start talking about the school or issues that come up. But if you can really get in a good groove with people, they will open up to you even more and start sharing with you when you don't even expect it.

Because I think the bottom line here too is people feel heard and they feel respected and they feel cared for when you're being mindful and communicating in a way That they feel comfortable and not feeling bulldozed by you, that you're just coming in, you know, hard and heavy, because that might just be your personality, right? The problem that a lot of us don't even realize is our thinking, right? What we tell ourselves is, I'm fine with this, so they should be fine with it as well, right? Another hot thought, right? All the shoulds, right?

Because now you're scolding yourself, you're scolding them. If it's fine with me, it should be fine with them. If I can do it this way, they should be able to do it this way, right? And that's not true. I mean, you know, think about people that do certain things in a way that you would never do.

They're probably thinking the same thing about you, right? I mean, we're all individual. We all need to be mindful of that, right? And, and also, if you have other people in your life that have relationship with this particular person that maybe you're struggling with, You know, talk to them and say, you know, you seem to do a better job with communicating. What are you doing differently?

Because I'm getting stuck. I keep hitting the wall. They're not sharing anything with me. We just end up in fights. You know, where is it that I'm messing up?

Because this is not working for me. A lot of people, I think, will just go ahead and try it their way because, again, it's just easier to do it your way. I mean, I'll admit that. Right. Right?

I'm raising my hand. Sure, if I can just communicate the way I want and be blunt and give me an answer, right? And sometimes that works with people, and a lot of times it doesn't, because I don't know what they're thinking. I don't know what their hot thoughts are, but whatever they are are causing them not to share with me or give me the information that I'm looking for, right? So lots of levels here, but we're all individual.

And we want to be aware of that. So like I said, with this, my example with my husband, you know, that if I have some things to talk about, I know that it's better to be able, you know, to sit down and not have any distractions and be able to really talk through it. I know it's good to put out an invitation. Hey, I want to talk at dinner, after dinner tonight. I got something to talk about, you know, give a little bit of information because people tend to get nervous, like, oh, is it going to be bad?

Right. But, It doesn't mean that it's bad at all, but I just, you know, want to have time so that I can communicate with him so he hears me and I feel good about it. And for me to learn to have that patience and accept our differences and not be frustrated with it, because our differences can be beneficial as well, right? Because he's more one-minded regarding tasks, that can help me also give more focus so I'm not thinking about 5 different things, which I normally am. Right.

So it's not, you know, who's right, who's wrong, who's better, who's not. My way is the better way. It's like nobody— it is what it is. Nobody's way is better than anybody else's. It's just understanding our differences.

And I think that's the conflict we have in lots of areas in our lives, in the world, is people don't take the time to understand where the other person's coming from and just assumes that they're wrong, and then they shut them out. Or they don't treat them with respect, right? Or I can, you know, I see lots of examples where parents just continue to communicate in a way or treat their children in a way that they just think is the right way. And they don't respect their kids regardless of what age they are, because that's my kid and I should just be able to do this or say this and they should understand. And the relationship just gets, you know, torn apart.

Nobody's being honest with each other, right? And then the kid, you know, repeats the parents' behaviors and they don't have good relationships and they don't have good communication either. So, you know, being a good communicator and respecting each other, especially when it's with your children, I think you're being a really good role model of this is what good communication is like. And if they tend to be a little anxious, you're giving the opportunity to teach them better ways to communicate because they're going to have to do that. When you're around, when you're not around, and you don't want them to repeat this negative communication that maybe you're practicing with them right now, right?

How you communicate at work, especially I think you know if you're a manager or supervisor, you know you're going to teach your other employees. Are you approachable? Are you open, right? Or are they just nervous around you or think you're always going to be pissed off, or because you say something they have to jump? Like that doesn't feel good.

That doesn't feel like you respect who they are, right? So if you want your employees to really do great and, you know, reach their goals, which also makes you look good, you know, what's best to get through? I mean, that, that's what good leadership is, is understanding who you're working with, right? So it goes back to use the knowledge you have. I tell clients all the time, you got all this knowledge you just totally ignore.

Well, I know they're like that, but I just want to do it my way. It's too hard, takes too much time. I don't— why do I have to think through that? Why do I have to do all this, you know, preliminary work just to communicate? You know, but if you will do that, it'd be really beneficial and worth your time.

And then, you know, it will get easier with that person because you're going to learn this is what works best. And, you know, that's something you can share with them too. This isn't some big secret. You can say, hey, I've I've really taken the time. I want to communicate in a way that you're going to feel heard, that you hear me.

You know, am I right that this works best? This is, you know, what you're most comfortable with. Ask them also. It doesn't have to be you guessing or figuring everything out. You know, this is the knowledge I have.

I think this is how you respond. And I just wanted to check in and see if that is true, because I'm thinking these things and they might be hot thoughts and I don't want to make decisions based on the way I'm thinking and feeling. When it's not even true, right? And then I'm being reactive. So if you look back again, I have a lot of podcasts on good communication skills, the 5 Secrets of Effective Communication, being a good listener.

That's a biggie here too, right? The more you listen, the more you're going to learn, which is going to help you communicate back to that person in a way that works for them. So again, you get your needs met.

And it can be a win-win. You know, how many times have you heard people say, God, no matter what I say, I can't get through to that person? You know, and they say that over and over again. And I'm like, where's the light bulb that should be going off in your head that if you keep doing the same thing, get the same results, which are not the ones you want, it isn't working. And you tend to just blame the other person, right?

They should understand what I want. They should be able to hear the way I'm saying it. They shouldn't get uptight about it. They shouldn't get all, you know, overwhelmed with it. You know, shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't.

And you never look at yourself and say, you know, I am the problem. The way I'm trying to talk to this person isn't working, and I'm ignoring the knowledge that I have. So I think all of us are smart enough To identify and use the knowledge that we have with each other. Because if you keep doing the same thing, you are going to get the same results, which aren't going to be good ones. And you're just going to be frustrated and it's going to hurt the relationship and all of those things.

So maybe write down 3 or 4 people in your life that you want to communicate better with. And then for each of them, I would write down, you know, what is the knowledge you have about them? Right. That making, you know, an appointment is best. Talking about one subject at once is best.

Um, making sure you identify the positive things with this person before you go into the changes that you want to be made. You know, write down a few words next to each person and then do a role play in your head. Right. And then you can always play this out with somebody else. Say, hey, I just want to do this role play with you before I go talk to this person at my job.

Right? Or I go ask my boss for a raise or whatever that might look like, right? So you can role-play it, write things down. You can do a thought record. You can journal about it and see what comes out as you're starting to write.

You know, what are these frustrations that you're having? What part of it can you own and you can change? And then go and practice with that person. And when you're done with that conversation, I want you to go back and Um, you know, see what worked and what didn't work, right? We always have room for improvement.

It's not, you know, we did it one way and that's the way it's always gonna work. But wow, I got a much better reaction because I said it this way. I took out the words of should or you. I wasn't blaming them. I was owning my part.

I was requesting. We came up with a game plan. We clarified we understood each other. Right? And again, take that time afterwards to say, wow, this really worked.

Because when we try something new and we see the benefits of it, we're going to be more likely to repeat that behavior, right? We're not going to repeat a behavior if we don't see anything that comes out of it, you know, if we don't feel like we benefit at all. But if we're like, oh my God, that actually worked, Dr. Julie has a point, right? That taking that extra time helped everything work better. I'm happier.

I feel good. That person feels good. And it's a win-win for both of us. So, you know, it doesn't— it, you know, right now it might take more time to kind of process this and think about people and write it down, but eventually it's just going to become easier for you. And you're going to be, uh, much more calmer, I would say, and much more smooth.

And when you communicate, and you don't always have to prep yourself, because you're gonna automatically know like, this is who I'm talking with today and this is what works for this person. I can think of, you know, everybody in my life that it's probably a little different with everybody. You know, some people I can just be really direct with and they can be direct with me and we trust each other and we don't get upset with each other. And then there's other people I have to be a lot softer with, not maybe ask as many questions. I'm someone, I ask a lot of questions 'cause I'm always so curious.

And I know some people really don't like that. So I learned to just maybe ask 1 or 2 questions, maybe word things so that people share more with me without me being so direct. But you know, all my kids, all 3 of them are different in how I communicate with them, um, based on my relationship and their personality. And that's okay. That's just how it is.

And it's something that I keep learning. Um, I'll always be working on it. And definitely has gotten better. Definitely has gotten better over the years because I've had to look at myself and see what am I doing wrong that's shutting them down or making them defensive. And then we don't get anywhere.

And the relationship is way more important to me than me just bulldozing them and doing it the way I want to, because it'd just be easier if I could just be direct and get an answer. Right? The relationship is much more important to me. And that's not just with my family. That's with people I work with, obviously friends, you know, anybody out there.

We all want to have better relationships and it usually starts with communication, right? And when we think we've messed up, you know, go back, make an amends. Say, I'm really sorry I came across really aggressive. That was not my intent. I was stressed.

I was reacting. I want to have a better relationship. What can I do to make it up to you? What's a better way for me to communicate with you so you can respond in a better way towards me? Because that is my goal for our relationship and our communication to be better.

So I hope this has been helpful. I hope it gives you a moment. I always want you to say, oh, I didn't think about it that way. I didn't think about that. I do have a lot of knowledge about this person that I'm just completely ignoring.

And I keep getting frustrated because I keep trying to say things the way I want to, and it never gets me anywhere. So I'm just going to take a pause, pause and breathe, right? I always say pause and breathe and think about what's the best way, what's the best environment, what's the best time to talk about this particular situation. And I'm telling you, you will be amazed at how much better it can be. And how significant this change of how you're thinking, which is how you're feeling, and then your behavior and how you're communicating.

You'll feel better physically. All the CBT tools, right? And the environment that you're in is really important. Sometimes, you know, if there is a conflict with someone, you know, instead of inviting them to your home or, or, you know, your office or their office, sometimes you wanna maybe just go out and get that cup of coffee so nobody's in like, you know, their particular territory and somebody doesn't feel as comfortable. The environment's a big deal.

You know, where are we gonna talk so we feel comfortable? Sometimes people talk much better on a walk. Some people talk better sitting down at a table and looking at each other. So whatever it is, it's good. There's no right or wrong.

You just have to understand who am I dealing with and how is this gonna work best?

So if you found this helpful, please share with anyone they may benefit as well. Um, please hit the subscribe button. If you're listening to me on Apple, you will just be reminded when a new podcast comes out. You're not going to get any emails, no letters. There's no fees.

Just hit subscribe and it helps us get out to even more people, which is great. You won't miss an episode. You know, you can find me on my website at mycognitivebehavioraltherapy.com. You can also find me on Instagram under My CBT Podcast and under Dr. Julie Osborne on Facebook, on TikTok, and on YouTube. So please keep sharing your thoughts, your concerns.

Please send me questions, give me some good ideas for future podcasts. I love hearing from you guys and getting your feedback.

Take good care of yourselves, and as always, make decisions based on what's best for you, not how you feel.